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Glueing canopies
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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:34 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hi All-

Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue
canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com.

Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net


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chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Glen,
Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?
Charlie Kuss
Quote:


Hi All-

Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue
canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com.

Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net




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rv7(at)b4.ca
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:
Quote:

Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?

Quote:
From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search
engine is your friend):


---
Hi Mickey,

I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika
209 primer from Jamestown Distributors.
Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat
builder supply store located in Rhode Island.

I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than case
lots. They also take credit card orders
over the phone.

They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com

Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground
so it could take a while to receive depending
upon where you live.

If you get some let me know what you think about it.

Jim Ellis
finishing canopy
RV9-A tip up
---


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rocketbob(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

I used 295, the cleaner which leaves a film (adhesion promoter), and the
black primer. I can grab the edge of the canopy and shake the whole
airplane. If you are patient and careful with it, you will have great
results with the sikaflex process. Having done it once I wouldn't do it any
other way, as others have said.

Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.

On 1/17/06, Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:
Quote:



Glen,
Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>Hi All-
>
>Jamestown Distributors is having a sale on the Sika products used to glue
>canopies on. See http://www.jamestowndistributors.com.
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

And I took Jim's advice. I got great service and a fair
price from Jamestown Distributors. The price was less
ordering from there and having it shipped to Switzerland
than it was to buy it locally - and it's made here!

Mickey
Rob Prior (rv7) wrote:
Quote:


On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:

>
> Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?


>From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search
engine is your friend):

---
Hi Mickey,

I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika
209 primer from Jamestown Distributors.
Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat
builder supply store located in Rhode Island.

I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than case
lots. They also take credit card orders
over the phone.

They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com

Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground
so it could take a while to receive depending
upon where you live.

If you get some let me know what you think about it.

Jim Ellis
finishing canopy
RV9-A tip up
---



--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive


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sisson(at)consolidated.ne
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Bob J wrote:

Quote:


I used 295, the cleaner which leaves a film (adhesion promoter), and the
black primer. I can grab the edge of the canopy and shake the whole
airplane. If you are patient and careful with it, you will have great
results with the sikaflex process. Having done it once I wouldn't do it any
other way, as others have said.

Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.



If I were doing it again, I would glue mine. I got a crack in mine with

the pop rivets. There is no real precise way of knowing how much
pressure the rivet will pop at and if it goes too much, it can crack the
canopy like mine did.

"normally" not a problem, but mine was well fitted and it pulled too
hard. I almost knew it was going to happen when I was pulling the
rivet. luckily the crack is under the top piece of aluminum and runs
from one hole to another and it is practically invisble.. There are
probably some out there that have cracks between holes that don't even
know it because they are hidden.

Phil in Illinois

Quote:




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Randy Richter



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Reston, VA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Guys, while we're on the subject, does anyone have any data on the weight
penalty, if any, of gluing as apposed to riveting? There's the obvious
advantage of less probability of cracking, but for some (those in warmer
climes) that's less of a concern.

Thanks!

Randy Richter
-7QB in embryonic stage

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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Quote:
If I were doing it again, I would glue mine. I got a crack in mine with
the pop rivets. There is no real precise way of knowing how much
pressure the rivet will pop at and if it goes too much, it can crack the
canopy like mine did.


Another alternative is using rivnuts. With those you can apply less
pressure than pop rivets. Maybe even a little glue too.

Ron Lee


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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hi Randy,

There is no doubt in my mind that gluing is heavier. I can't
tell you how much, but two or three tubes (standard caulk size)
will weigh more than a handful of rivets.

Mickey

Randall Richter wrote:
Quote:


Guys, while we're on the subject, does anyone have any data on the weight
penalty, if any, of gluing as apposed to riveting? There's the obvious
advantage of less probability of cracking, but for some (those in warmer
climes) that's less of a concern.

Thanks!

Randy Richter
-7QB in embryonic stage

--

Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive


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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Time: 05:37:37 AM PST US
Hi Charlie-

I got what Rob recommended- Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner,
and the Sika
209 primer

Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net


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jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:47 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hello Sikaflex users. Did you purchase the black or white sika 295 uv? Does
it make a difference? Thanks,

Jim Bowen
Quote:
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Glueing canopies
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:18:18 -0800



On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?

>From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search
engine is your friend):

---
Hi Mickey,

I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika
209 primer from Jamestown Distributors.
Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat
builder supply store located in Rhode Island.

I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than
case
lots. They also take credit card orders
over the phone.

They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com

Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground
so it could take a while to receive depending
upon where you live.

If you get some let me know what you think about it.

Jim Ellis
finishing canopy
RV9-A tip up
---





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gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hey Fellow Builders,

So happens that I'm just embarking on the canopy process and
glueing _sounds_ a whole lot more user friendly than drilling,
cracking, scratching, tearing hair out.

Has anyone documented any part of the glue approach on their
website ... would love to get a sense of your experiences,
pitfalls, pros and cons ...

g

Quote:



Hello Sikaflex users. Did you purchase the black or white sika
295 uv? Does
it make a difference? Thanks,

Jim Bowen


>From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Glueing canopies
>Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:18:18 -0800
>
>
>
>On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> > Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?
>
> >From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search
>engine is your friend):
>
>---
>Hi Mickey,
>
>I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika
>209 primer from Jamestown Distributors.
>Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat
>builder supply store located in Rhode Island.
>
>I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than
>case
>lots. They also take credit card orders
>over the phone.
>
>They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com
>
>Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground
>so it could take a while to receive depending
>upon where you live.
>
>If you get some let me know what you think about it.
>
>Jim Ellis
>finishing canopy
>RV9-A tip up
>---
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
















--
__g__

==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177


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rv8builder(at)earthlink.n
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

It is my understanding that the white material is a caulking material and does not have adhesive qualities. I would check with vendor and/or manufacturer to be sure.

Dale
Building a RV-8 in SC

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Mark Phillips in TN



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Quote:
>>>

what kind of plane/canopy?

Mark - do not archive


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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Here is a link to my experiences:

http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20050614184749626

There are 6 articles in total on the canopy.

Mickey

Quote:
Has anyone documented any part of the glue approach on their
website ... would love to get a sense of your experiences,
pitfalls, pros and cons ...

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


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gerf(at)gerf.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Many thanks Mickey - this looks like a very doable process and
the results look great !

I'm building a 9 - any thoughts on wether the larger dimensions
of my canopy might present additional problems ?

g

Quote:



Here is a link to my experiences:

http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20050614184749626

There are 6 articles in total on the canopy.

Mickey

> Has anyone documented any part of the glue approach on their
> website ... would love to get a sense of your experiences,
> pitfalls, pros and cons ...


--
__g__

==========================================================
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Tel: 415 203 9177


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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

I really can't say if the 9 will be very different. The
guy that introduced me to this process had a 6 slider,
which I assume is not very different from a 9.

If you look here: http://www.vansairforce.net/ and
click down about one screen, you can see two pictures
of someone with a 6/7/9 slider canopy that has been
glued. I have no idea who is the owner of this canopy,
but you can see one of the "challenges" with the glue -
keeping the final finish looking perfect. It's harder
than it looks, because sikaflex 295 UV dries pretty quickly.

Here are the direct links to the pictures, for the
archive:

http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/IronFlight_Visit/IMG_0373.JPG

http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/IronFlight_Visit/IMG_0374.JPG

Best of luck, take a lot of pictures, and put them
on your website!

Best regards,
Mickey
Gerry Filby wrote:
Quote:



Many thanks Mickey - this looks like a very doable process and
the results look great !

I'm building a 9 - any thoughts on wether the larger dimensions
of my canopy might present additional problems ?

g


>
>
>Here is a link to my experiences:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20050614184749626
>
>There are 6 articles in total on the canopy.
>
>Mickey
>>Has anyone documented any part of the glue approach on their
>>website ... would love to get a sense of your experiences,
>>pitfalls, pros and cons ...
>


--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


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jim jewell



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Kelowna B.C. Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hello Dale,

I think the correct Sikaflex to use might be #291

When installing the slider canopy to the frame on my 6a I used 6/32 screws
instead of rivets. I used a Targa strip along the centre and the forward
edge to spread the screws compression load. I did not use any sealant during
assembly. Rivets scared me.

The result was acceptable but had issues that needed attention;

When moved, the slider made creaking noises caused by the lack of sealant
between the frame and the Plexiglas. Clearly the frame was changing shape
when any pressure was applied to open or close it. Sometimes the forward
edge of the slider contacted the fibre-glas edge around the windshield.

I contacted Sikaflex and they advised using Sikaflex-291 a fast cure marine
adhesive/sealant and bedding compound.
We applied masking tape and paper to keep things tidy to both sides of all
the reachable areas where the tube frame and the Plexiglas meet. we then
laid in a bead of the Sikaflex followed by a dry finger tip to force the
sealant into the crevice and also leave a nice looking filet.

When all was done I closed the canopy and latched it. I left it to set up
that way for a few days. We then taped and papered up the outside areas
where the aluminiun edge and the Plexiglas come together. The tape was
applied right to the edge of the aluminium. On the Plexiglas the tape was
applied leaving about a 1/8" gap.
When all prep was ready we applied tank sealant and used a popsicle stick
afterwards to create a good looking fillet.

The amount of Sikaflex used was about two thirds of a tube. Some amount of
this volume was removed during the fillet forming process. I think that half
a tube actually ended up staying on the canopy. This includes a small amount
used on the rear side of the roll bar to tidy up the look and add a little
strength there.
The time spent doing the taping and the Sikaflex was about 3 hours.

The end result is the canopy looks great inside and out and it works great.
No squeaks, feels very solid in use. It does not make contact with the
windshield edge on closing.

The 5 or six ounces of added sealant (each tube contains 10.5 ounces) where
well worth the effort.
The aircraft (Chubby?!) is painted and is being put together in the hangar.
Should be ready for flight as the weather warms this coming spring.

Jim in Kelowna
---


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Sikaflex advises to use the black as it has a much better UV tolerance,
also, u have to maintain a minimum gap between frame and canopee for the
sikaflex to work. According to the lad i talked to, if u do not allow
for a gap, the sikaflex will eventually rip from expansion differences
between plexi and frame.

I also got from Jamestown as they sell piecemeal.

JAMES BOWEN wrote:

Quote:


Hello Sikaflex users. Did you purchase the black or white sika 295 uv? Does
it make a difference? Thanks,

Jim Bowen


>From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Glueing canopies
>Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:18:18 -0800
>
>
>
>On 5:29:13 2006-01-17 Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Can you list the exact products to use for gluing the canopies?
>>
>>
>>From an email to this list, in November of 2004 (the Matronics search
>engine is your friend):
>
>---
>Hi Mickey,
>
>I purchased the Sikaflex 295UV adhesive, the Sika 226 cleaner, and the Sika
>209 primer from Jamestown Distributors.
>Their phone number is 800 423-0030 (also 401 253-3840) . They are a boat
>builder supply store located in Rhode Island.
>
>I have had good service from them, and they sell this stuff in less than
>case
>lots. They also take credit card orders
>over the phone.
>
>They also have a web page www.jamestowndistributors.com
>
>Because some of these items are flammable they have to be shipped by ground
>so it could take a while to receive depending
>upon where you live.
>
>If you get some let me know what you think about it.
>
>Jim Ellis
>finishing canopy
>RV9-A tip up
>---
>
>
>
>
>








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capsteve



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Glueing canopies Reply with quote

Hello Sikaflex users. Did you purchase the black or white sika 295 uv? Does
it make a difference? Thanks,
Here's a cut and paste from sikaflex... Steve dinieri
Application:
. SikaflexR-295 UV black is intended to be used as an adhesive and/or
sealant in bonding applications for:
- polycarbonate
- acrylic (PMAA)
Use in conjunction with SikaR- Primer 209. Always seek the manufacturer's
advice prior
to bonding these plastics that are prone to stress cracking.
. SikaflexR-295 UV white is intended to be used as a sealant in open joints
exposed to
sunlight for sealing:
- glass
- ceramics
- metals
- many plastics
- fiberglass
- many types of paint
Use in conjunction with SikaR-Cleaner 226 or SikaR-Aktivator. Refer to the
Surface Preparation Guidelines for further information.

Surface reparation for acrylic (PMAA) or Polycarbonate:
. Scuff the bond area with sand paper or a Scotchbrite pad.
. Degrease the bond area with SikaR-Cleaner 226 (drying time 10 minutes)
. Apply SikaR-Primer 209 in one continuous, homogeneous coat with a brush or
dauber (drying time 20 minutes at 75oF). If there is an abrasion/scratch
resistant coating, it must be completelyremoved with sandpaper (80x - 120x)
prior to surface preparation (i.e. Margard coating on Lexan). Organic
windows with special tinting or coating should be pretested for adhesion.
Refer to the Surface Preparation Guidelines or Sika's Technical Service
Department for further information.
Adhesive Application:
Sikaflex-295 UV should be applied in a triangular bead through an
appropriately
cut nozzle. The nozzle cut dimensions and the number of beads applied are
dependent
upon the required width and thickness of the adhesive bead in the final
assembly.
Width: The adhesive width is dependant upon the constraints of the assembly
(available
glazing area and degree of compression). The joint width must be a minimum
of
3/8".
Substrate and Working Conditions:
. During these operations, the bonding surfaces must be free of dirt, debris
and standing moisture.
. Keep the work area shielded from direct sunlight and temperature extremes;
apply
system at a maximum ambient temperature of 95oF.
. Joint thickness can be maintained using self-adhesive rubber spacers of
Shore A 30 hardness.
. Once the window is installed, it must be braced for at least 12 hours.
. During assembly/bracing , take care not to twist or bend the window
excessively.

Thickness: For bonding on metal or composite framing, the adhesive thickness
is dependant upon the longest dimension of the window.
Limitations:
- Do not apply on frozen surface or through standing water or under water.
- Do not apply over silicones or in the presence of curing silicones.
- Avoid contact with alcohol and alcoholcontaining solvents during cure.
- Allow minimum of 1 week full cure prior to total water immersion
situations.
- Maximum chlorine exposure 2.5 ppm.
- Do not use as a deck seam sealant.
- Do not use for bonding glass.


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