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billn(at)velocity.net
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 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Still locking up |
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All-
Sending pictures still hit or miss. Some people get them, some don't. My computer locked up when I tried to send them to Matt. I probably have a software conflict somewhere.
What I did in AutoCad was work out the linkage dimensions for an internal RAC powered trim system. The concept was not mine; I was working from another lister's picture. When I settled on some numbers, I built a chunk of aileron as proof of concept and got the travel I wanted.
There are still a lot of variables to be worked out such as flat plate vs airfoil, tab geometry, tab area, etc. Builders who have come before me agree on two points:
1. The airfoil tab seems to be less effective and harder to build.
2. The more area, the better.
Good building in '06!
Bill
do not archive
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moorecomp(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: Still locking up |
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Bill,
Just a note to let you know of a program I found for
designing
linkages and mechanisms. Download the full functioning
demo, it
works very well. Sort of a poor man's Catia.
www.artas.nl/
I was playing with it and designed a dual control
wheel system
for a 701 with 5, 10 and 15 degree flap positions
(manual, center
lever) and slightly asymetric aileron throw (12 down
14 up).
Just playing.
Craig Moore
A&P and 701 builder wannabe
do not archive
--- bill naumuk <billn(at)velocity.net> wrote:
<billn(at)velocity.net>
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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: Still locking up |
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Hi Bill,
I am not sure I agree with the notion that more trim tab is better.
My thinking involves failure modes. If the trim tab gets stuck, you
have to overpower it by applying pressure to the stick. The bigger
the trim tab, the more constant pressure would be needed on the stick
to overcome this kind of failure. It could get very tiresome very fast.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 07:35 AM 1/2/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | There are still a lot of variables to be worked out such as flat
plate vs airfoil, tab geometry, tab area, etc. Builders who have
come before me agree on two points:
1. The airfoil tab seems to be less effective and harder to build.
2. The more area, the better.
|
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
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billn(at)velocity.net
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Still locking up |
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Craig-
I'm just playing, too. Can't proceed with my project until an order from
ACS comes in, and with the holidays, I won't see it until I'm back to work.
Not their fault. To keep occupied, I'm working on a problem that really
doesn't have to be solved for quite a while yet.
Through whatever method, in my mind I solved the linkage problem. Let's
look at what's still on the table:
dralle.txt gigi.txt grant.txt matt.txt save.txt The Zenith recommended HDS flat plate tab hinges at the trailing edge
of the aileron.
On the plus side, it has a small drag profile, and the trailing edge
hinging improves leverage.
On the minus side, it's butt ugly, hangs out where polishing cloths,
shirts, etc. can get caught on it, and could be responsible for adverse
handling in turbulent conditions. You have a surface increasing aileron
travel whether you want it or not.
dralle.txt gigi.txt grant.txt matt.txt save.txt An airfoil tab is aesthetically most pleasing, and hinges forward of
the trailing edge.
On the plus side, it "Looks like it belongs". I can't think of a
genav (As opposed to say, a STOL) certificated aircraft that doesn't use
this configuration. It also won't snag shirts, and since it can be
neutralized to become part of the aileron planform, shouldn't induce
negative handling in turbulent conditions.
On the minus side, it's a pain to build, and listers report marginal
efficiency.
dralle.txt gigi.txt grant.txt matt.txt save.txt A flat tab is aesthetically acceptable and hinges forward of the
trailing edge.
On the plus side, it's easy to construct, and more importantly,
easiest to modify down the line. It also shouldn't induce negative handling
in turbulent conditions.
On the minus side, the forward hinging will mean an increased flat
plate drag area to achieve the same control movement as the Zenith tab. In
addition, unless hinged along the centerline of the aileron rib, more down
travel will be necessary to be equal in effect to up travel.
Like I said, I'm back to work Wednesday- you probably won't hear a
peep out of me for 6 months. I was hoping that someone with plenty of time
on their hands would plug things into the design program available on the
EAA website and find out what the drag penalties of the different
configurations is. My gut feeling is that you might be able to get an
acceptable compromise using a shorter length, longer chord (Extending from
the trailing edge maybe 1/2") flat tab, hinged ahead of the trailing edge.
Bill
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larrymc(at)qconline.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Still locking up |
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Bill,
I recommended and installed the flat plate tab because I believe the tab
is less seen than the
built-in tab. Consider that both types of tab are nearly always out of
alignment with the aileron, so you
have the extra eye-catching formed trail edges looking at you and they
could as easily be snagged by a shirt
or pants. The tab is simpler, better position from which to pivot and
less effort to install. You
just round the corners a little. If the tab is by itself out of
alignment with the aileron or elevator,
no one notices. At 5 feet, it's less to see than the built-in tab and
easier to change if it needs resizing..
Just an opinion of course.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
do not archive
bill naumuk wrote:
| Quote: | dralle.txt gigi.txt grant.txt matt.txt save.txt The Zenith recommended HDS flat plate tab hinges at the trailing edge
of the aileron.
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