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Long body commanders?

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rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

Commanders-



I've been asked to performa a small research project related to the

autopilot that we are working to have STC'd for the commander fleet, and

I've been asked for a few fleet numbers.  I need some help as follows:



-> Which of the 680 series commanders are long-body airplanes like the

685/690, etc?



-> Anyone have handy numbers as to how many of the long-body 680 and 685

airplanes are still active in service?



-> Anyone have handy numbers as to how many 690 - 1000 series commanders are

in service?



Thanks, guys... 



I am working to convince the firm that they really should look to

incorporate the entire commander line in their STC efforts so that we can

have access to a new, lightweight digital autopilot for all commanders...

I'll keep you posted on my efforts.



Robert Randazzo

WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

Please consider the straight 680 commander in your STC's Thanks Gil Walker wingflyer1(at)aol.com

hcourier(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

I fly a 680 FLP which is the long body.



RM

---

CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

In a message dated 31-Jul-06 09:42:58 Pacific Daylight Time, rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Which of the 680 series commanders are long-body airplanes like the

685/690, etc? 	


 Robert,

 �

 Sir Barry will undoubtedly have the stats on how many of each airframe are in service.

 �

 As for models of long bodies, I'll toss out the following:

 �

 AC-680FL

 AC-680FL(P)

 AC-680T,V,W (turbine)

 AC-681 (turbine model)

 AC-685

 AC-690, A,B,C,D (turbine)

 AC-695, A,B (turbine)

 �

 They're all underType Certificate�2A4:����(TCDS 2A4 Rev 46 Twin Commander Aircraft Corporation

 �

 I think the bottom line is the potential market for the long bodies and that equals number on airframes with old Bendix/Motorola or Collins autopilot systems.

 �

 Good luck and thanks for blazing the trail.

 �

 Wing Commander Gordon

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

Hi Robert,



The Wing Commander obviously listed all the long-body Commanders.



My database shows the following numbers of each of those Models.



The first figure is those on the US Register and to the best of my knowledge, 

still 'active'.

It might be prudent to use say 90/95% of these figures to allow for those that 

are not 'active' in the true sense of the word.



The second figure is for those registered elsewhere in the World.

It might be prudent to use say 85/90% of these figures, as it is very difficult 

to get good information from certain areas, such as South America.



Piston Models:

680FL - 38 / 34

680FLP - 10 / 5

685 - 29 / 12



Turbine Models:

680T - 2 / 0

680V - 20 / 9

680W - 13 / 8

681 - 18 / 26

690 - 17 / 34

690A - 102 / 89

690B - 121 / 73

690C - 55 / 50

690D - 13 / 18

695 - 29 / 43

695A - 33 / 50

695B - 10 / 3



Before anyone says "Not right, matey", these figures include Models converted to 

another Model. So, although only 8 695B's were built, my figures include another 

6 that were converted from 695A. Similarly, the 680T figure is low as many were 

converted to 680V.



Regrettably, I will be unable to accept any legal liability if these figures are 

proved to be wrong. In any event, "her indoors" has all the money 



Very Best Regards,

Barry

---

KenWHyde(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

Barry,

  

 Wondering if you have published a list of the 500 series Commanders as0you0 have here for the 680's?

  

 Thanks,

 Ken Hyde

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

WCG-

  

 My "ultimate goal" is to0 convince them that it is worth covering the entire commander0 line.  Right now we have an agreement in principle to produce a0 "on-time STC" to allow the AP-3C installation in the 685....  I'm working0 to convince them that there is a long-sighted approach to this that involves0 both ends of the commander fleet....

  

 It's an argument that I0 have to make in stages...

  

 Rob



   From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of0 WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 09:50

To:0 commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Long body0 commanders?

 

 Please consider the straight 680 commander in your STC's Thanks Gil Walker0 wingflyer1(at)aol.com

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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus0 system.

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CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

In a message dated 31-Jul-06 12:49:32 Pacific Daylight Time, rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  It's an argument that I have to make in stages... 	


 Agreed.  You may want to entice them with the idea that the AC-685 is really the same airframe as the AC-690 series and that's got to be an attractive market for them.

  

 The Collins AP-105s aren't dead yet, but they'll be as hard to support as the Bendix/Motorola M4 series in another 10 years.

  

 Wing Commander Gordon

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Hi Ken,

  

 OK - here's a listing of the short-body Commanders, with0 the same caveats as the earlier list! These, of course, are all piston0 Models:

  

 500 - 43 / 10

 500A - 30 / 9 (Including the Colemill "Super0 300")

 500B - 108 / 35 (Including those converted from0 500A)

 500S - 93 / 141

 500U - 8 / 24

 520 - 50 / 7

 560 - 26 / 4

 560A - 21 / 4

 560A(HC) - 11 / 3

 560E - 32 / 7

 560F - 25 / 15

 680 - 64 / 22

 680E - 43 / 11

 680F - 23 / 21

 680F(P) - 17 / 5

 720 - 3 / 0

  

 A summary of these and the previous figures0 is:

 Piston Models - 684 / 374

 Turbine Models - 433 / 403

 Total - 1117 / 777 (1,894 still 'active' from a total0 built of 3,170)

  

 If the FAA Register database is checked for these0 figures, the likelihood is they will not be the same. The reason is that many0 are still showing on the "current" FAA Register, but were in fact exported many0 years ago, or have been withdrawn from service or destroyed, but the 'N' number0 has never been cancelled.

  

 Very Best Regards,

 Barry

  

  

 [quote]   ---

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Gordon-

  

 Before the heads of0 Chelton Aviation were killed in their accident- they had apparently received 340 orders for this autopilot in 690 series airplanes...  They were planning to0 use our airplane to get the STC accomplished, so we're using the 690 as a lever0 to get the 685 and 680(long body) series covered as well.

  

 Interestingly enough, the0 only reason why we didn't have the STC filed before their accident was because0 they originally spec'd out the installation based on a short body 680... We had0 to send back the correct data/drawings/pictures for the installation to have0 them approved by their engineering people for the long body airplane.  We0 were (literally) waiting on a signature only- and those poor fellows had a run0 of bad luck.  So those drawings and data exist- and with any luck we'll be0 able to convince the DAS facility that they can act on them.

  

 If this can be my0 contribution to the community- then I'll be quite happy...  and then i'll0 spend the rest of my time tooling around in N414C enjoying my new0 autopilot.  

  

 Robert0 Randazzo

  



   From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of0 CloudCraft(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:53

To:0 commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Long body0 commanders?

 

  In a message dated 31-Jul-06 12:49:32 Pacific Daylight Time,0 rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:

 It's an argument that I have to make0   in stages...[/quote]

 Agreed.  You may want to entice them with0 the idea that the AC-685 is really the same airframe as the AC-690 series and0 that's got to be an attractive market for them.

  

 The Collins AP-105s aren't dead yet, but they'll0 be as hard to support as the Bendix/Motorola M4 series in another 100 years.

  

 Wing Commander0 Gordon

__________ NOD32 1.1685 (20060731)0 Information __________



This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus0 system.

http://www.eset.com

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Bob,  

How were they killed? I googled and couldn’t find an aviation accident that involved Chelton employees.   

Let me know.  

Thanks  

Nico  

   

         

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo

 Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:29 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Long body commanders?  

  

   

Gordon-  

   

Before the heads of Chelton Aviation were killed in their accident- they had apparently received 34 orders for this autopilot in 690 series airplanes...  They were planning to use our airplane to get the STC accomplished, so we're using the 690 as a lever to get the 685 and 680(long body) series covered as well.  

   

Interestingly enough, the only reason why we didn't have the STC filed before their accident was because they originally spec'd out the installation based on a short body 680... We had to send back the correct data/drawings/pictures for the installation to have them approved by their engineering people for the long body airplane.  We were (literally) waiting on a signature only- and those poor fellows had a run of bad luck.  So those drawings and data exist- and with any luck we'll be able to convince the DAS facility that they can act on them.  

   

If this can be my contribution to the community- then I'll be quite happy...  and then i'll spend the rest of my time tooling around in N414C enjoying my new autopilot.    

   

Robert Randazzo  

   

       

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:53

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Long body commanders?      

In a message dated 31-Jul-06 12:49:32 Pacific Daylight Time, rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

It's an argument that I have to make in stages...  	
  

    

[b]Agreed.  You may want to entice them with the idea that the AC-685 is really the same airframe as the AC-690 series and that's got to be an attractive market for them.[/b]  

    

   

    

[b]The Collins AP-105s aren't dead yet, but they'll be as hard to support as the Bendix/Motorola M4 series in another 10 years.[/b]  

    

   

    

[b]Wing Commander Gordon[/b]  

  



 

 __________ NOD32 1.1685 (20060731) Information __________

 

 This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

 http://www.eset.com

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Nico-

  

 NTSB link to this accident report:

 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20060502X00496&key=1

  

 Apparently they were on a personal0 flight...

  

 Robert



   From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico0 css

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 14:01

To:0 commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Long body0 commanders?

 

  

Bob, 

How were they killed? I0 googled and couldn’t find an aviation accident that involved Chelton employees.0  

Let me0 know. 

Thanks 

Nico 

  

     

 

From:0 owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert S. Randazzo

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:290 PM

To:0 commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Long body0 commanders?

 

  

Gordon- 

  

Before the heads of Chelton Aviation0 were killed in their accident- they had apparently received 34 orders for this0 autopilot in 690 series airplanes...  They were planning to use our  airplane to get the STC accomplished, so we're using the 690 as a lever to get0 the 685 and 680(long body) series covered as well. 

  

Interestingly enough, the only0 reason why we didn't have the STC filed before their accident was because they0 originally spec'd out the installation based on a short body 680... We had to0 send back the correct data/drawings/pictures for the installation to have them0 approved by their engineering people for the long body airplane.  We were0 (literally) waiting on a signature only- and those poor fellows had a run of bad0 luck.  So those drawings and data exist- and with any luck we'll be able to0 convince the DAS facility that they can act on0 them. 

  

If this can be my contribution to0 the community- then I'll be quite happy...  and then i'll spend the rest of0 my time tooling around in N414C enjoying my new autopilot. 0  

  

Robert0 Randazzo 

  

    

 

From:0 owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, July 31, 20060 12:53

To:0 commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Long body0 commanders?   

In a message dated 31-Jul-060 12:49:32 Pacific Daylight Time, rsrandazzo(at)precisionmanuals.com0 writes:

    

It's an argument that I have to0   make in stages...[/quote]

  

[b]Agreed.  You may want to0 entice them with the idea that the AC-685 is really the same airframe as the0 AC-690 series and that's got to be an attractive market for0 them.[/b]

  

 

  

[b]The Collins AP-105s aren't dead0 yet, but they'll be as hard to support as the Bendix/Motorola M4 series in0 another 10 years.[/b]

  

 

  

[b]Wing Commander0 Gordon[/b]

 

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This message was checked by NOD320 antivirus system.

http://www.eset.com

__________0 NOD32 1.1685 (20060731) Information __________



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http://www.eset.com

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Gents,

  

 Another problem with the FAA data is that some (including mine) 680F(p)0 models are actually listed as 680F models.  Pressurization was an "add on0 option" not a completely different model.

  

 Moe

 N680RR

 680F(p)

 [quote]   ---

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: Long body commanders?

Hi Moe,

  

 Yes, of course, that's right. The good folk at the FAA0 are sometimes prone to not pigeon-holing things in the correct0 place.

  

 Another 'jumble' is with the "Aero Commander 500 S" (FAA0 MMS code 0141107) and the "Rockwell International 500-S" (FAA MMS code 7630410)0 where instead of a split at a certain serial number, it seems anything goes into0 either one of these, regardless of the entity it was manufactured0 under.

  

 Sometimes, in their defence, they are often fed 'duff'0 info in the first place though! (Not in your case, of course!!)

  

 I'm not having a go at the FAA here, as they've always0 been helpful over and above the call of duty to me and have had the patience of0 a Saint sometimes!!

  

 Sincere Best Regards,

 Barry

  

 [quote]   ---

KenWHyde(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: Long body commanders?

Thanks Barry

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