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Motorcycle grip Throttle

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kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Cut Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip throttle caught my attention. 

I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left leg from polio as a 

child - not enough strength for left rudder.  I used to fly an RV-4. Sold it 

to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I had left rudder and left 

brake hand controls on the RV-4.  On landings I cut the power to idle when 

the field was made.  I needed the left hand for rudder (particularly on 

crosswinds) and right for the stick.   I never did wheel landings - a bit 

too cautious I guess. I don't know much about motorcycles.  Could a 

motorcycle grip throttle be installed on the S7 stick, but still have a 

regular throttle for others would might fly the plane?  I'm using a Rotax 

912S, which, of course, has two carbs. Sure, I could probably fly the S7 

like the RV-4, but I would much rather have use of the throttle on the 

landing and roll-out - more options, you know.  I hadn't thought about the 

motorcycle grip before. Is it even feasible to run two throttle cables to 

two carbs? How could the motorcycle throttle be locked to maintain cruise 

RPM? Any ideas would be appreciated. If this sounds a little dumb, have some 

compassion - I'm a good accountant - not an engineer.



Ken Jones

JeffFowler(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

In a message dated 8/5/2006 4:28:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,0 kmamjones(at)comcast.net writes:

 Cut0   Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip throttle caught my attention.0   

I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left leg from polio as a0   

child - not enough strength for left rudder.  I used to fly an RV-4.0   Sold it 

to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I had left rudder0   and left 

brake hand controls on the RV-4.  On landings I cut the0   power to idle when 

the field was made.  I needed the left hand for0   rudder (particularly on 

crosswinds) and right for the stick.   I0   never did wheel landings - a bit 

too cautious I guess. I don't know much0   about motorcycles.  Could a 

motorcycle grip throttle be installed on0   the S7 stick, but still have a 

regular throttle for others would might fly0   the plane?  I'm using a Rotax 

912S, which, of course, has two carbs.0   Sure, I could probably fly the S7 

like the RV-4, but I would much rather0   have use of the throttle on the 

landing and roll-out - more options, you0   know.  I hadn't thought about the 

motorcycle grip before. Is it even0   feasible to run two throttle cables to 

two carbs? How0   could the motorcycle throttle be locked to maintain cruise 

RPM? Any0   ideas would be appreciated. If this sounds a little dumb, have some0   

compassion - I'm a good accountant - not an engineer.



Ken Jones0   

[/quote]

 

 Hello Ken and list,

  

     How you would rig the cables is unclear to me, but,0my0 1985 H-D FLT has a throttle that has a thumb screw that holds the throttle by0 tension at what ever setting you leave it at. It's a common feature on most0 bikes above 400 cc today. the diameter of your stick is needed to make a0 decision on what type to use if you try it though.

  

 Till Next Time,

 Jeff Fowler

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

All this talk about a motorcycle throttle has me worried!

  

 If John Denver were here he would say "keep things standard" "I can't live with controls and switches and valves being anywhere but correct and in0the right place". That's what he would say.

 What would happen with a twist throttle (motorcycle style) at the end of your stick when moving the stick around, yanking it back for take off, pushing it forward for level flight and what about those quick lefts and rights at landing (little breezes).

  

 I can imagine, if I had another control on my stick, I would be adjusting the RPM the same time as I make flight control inputs.

  

 But then again, I am thinking of installing a foot controlled throttle. Do you think it should be to the right of the rudder peddles or in between? (Kidding!!)

  

 With all the discussions on the topic, safety?

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Ken,

I think this could be done.  It would take some research, but there are lots

of different kinds of hardware out there.  



A lot of bikes (especially dirt bikes) have two cables - one to pull the

throttle open and one to pull it shut.  It seems to me that this could be

interfaced with the standard throttle control for the 912S.  But it may be

better to just have a custom cable made to go directly to the carbs.  There

are a number of places that will do this.



There are twist throttle controls where the cable comes out parallel to the

bar (stick?) and there are twist throttle controls where the cable comes out

90 degrees to the bar/stick.  I kinda like the 90 degree approach for

mounting on the stick.  These cables are designed to handle lots of movement

because the handle bars move to steer the motorcycle.  Attention would be

needed in selecting the routing of the cables to avoid interference with

legs, frame, etc.



Another approach is the ATV thumb throttle.  I don't know that these have a

position lock as someone else pointed out is available on a lot of bikes.

You could make the stick a couple of inches longer and mount this thumb

throttle above the hand grip to be well positioned for the thumb.  You might

even be able to hook up a cruise control to handle cruise flight.



Interesting problem.   Lots of options.  Good luck and I would like a report

of your progress.



Randy  912S series 5/7

.           



--

bmwebb(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

There is a lever actuated friction lock, called “cruise control”, for bike throttles that help hold the twist grip for you when cruising down the highway. I think there are several makes, but try JC Whitney, or any local motorcycle shop. You can adjust them for tension, so you can still move the throttle if you have to. Has a little lever to engage and disengage it.  

   

One thing to think about is a trigger throttle, like that on early ATVs and most watercraft. One or two finger trigger style at the stick grip might get you what you want. Not sure how you’d “lock” it, but you might be able to figure something out.  

Bradley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JeffFowler(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:32 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Motorcycle grip Throttle  

  

       

In a message dated 8/5/2006 4:28:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kmamjones(at)comcast.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Cut Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip throttle caught my attention. 

 I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left leg from polio as a 

 child - not enough strength for left rudder.  I used to fly an RV-4. Sold it 

 to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I had left rudder and left 

 brake hand controls on the RV-4.  On landings I cut the power to idle when 

 the field was made.  I needed the left hand for rudder (particularly on 

 crosswinds) and right for the stick.   I never did wheel landings - a bit 

 too cautious I guess. I don't know much about motorcycles.  Could a 

 motorcycle grip throttle be installed on the S7 stick, but still have a 

 regular throttle for others would might fly the plane?  I'm using a Rotax 

 912S, which, of course, has two carbs. Sure, I could probably fly the S7 

 like the RV-4, but I would much rather have use of the throttle on the 

 landing and roll-out - more options, you know.  I hadn't thought about the 

 motorcycle grip before. Is it even feasible to run two throttle cables to 

 two carbs? How could the motorcycle throttle be locked to maintain cruise 

 RPM? Any ideas would be appreciated. If this sounds a little dumb, have some 

 compassion - I'm a good accountant - not an engineer.

 

 Ken Jones   	
  

    

Hello Ken and list,  

    

   

    

    How you would rig the cables is unclear to me, but, my 1985 H-D FLT has a throttle that has a thumb screw that holds the throttle by tension at what ever setting you leave it at. It's a common feature on most bikes above 400 cc today. the diameter of your stick is needed to make a decision on what type to use if you try it though.  

    

   

    

Till Next Time,  

    

Jeff Fowler

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Actually what I was suggesting is the standard for

helos, but not on the stick you are thinking of.  It

is on the other stick called the "collective" beside

the seat, which controls lift and power, not

direction.



Our flap handle could be used the same way, to a

degree.  But it must be noted that the helo's throttle

works backwards from a motorcycle and that can be

dangerous, if you mix the two.



The benefit of this arrangement on a plane is that you

can much more precisely control lift with flaps and

with more rapid responce than by changing pitch.  But

for it to work well, you need to constantly have your

hand on the flap lever and that is why you put the

throttle there.  Also it would need instant pitch trim

to match the flap pitch inputs to keep the angle of

attack you select with the stick, or you will have the

nose ducking and pitching with every flap change.



Done well, you could hold a constant pitch attitude

and AOA on final, but vary the flaps with every gust

and downdraft to precisely keep your glideslope

without pitch changes.  No ballooning or floating

either.  It really is much more precise and quicker

control than we are used to in airplanes.



Kurt S.



--- Ceashman(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   All this talk about a motorcycle throttle has me

 worried!

 

 If John Denver were here he would say "keep things

 standard" "I can't live 

 with controls and switches and valves being anywhere

 but correct and in the 

 right place". That's what he would say.

 What would happen with a twist throttle (motorcycle

 style) at the end of your 

 stick when moving the stick around, yanking it back

 for take off, pushing it 

 forward for level flight and what about those quick

 lefts and rights at 

 landing (little breezes).

 

 I can imagine, if I had another control on my stick,

 I would be adjusting the 

 RPM the same time as I make flight control inputs.

 

 But then again, I am thinking of installing a foot

 controlled throttle. Do 

 you think it should be to the right of the rudder

 peddles or in between? 

 (Kidding!!)

 

 With all the discussions on the topic, safety?


	


__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Recip helos have motorcycle type throttles on the collective. How about on the flap lever??



  	  Quote: 	
		     All this talk about a motorcycle throttle has me worried!

  

 If John Denver were here he would say "keep things standard" "I can't live with controls and switches and valves being anywhere but correct and in the right place". That's what he would say.

 What would happen with a twist throttle (motorcycle style) at the end of your stick when moving the stick around, yanking it back for take off, pushing it forward for level flight and what about those quick lefts and rights at landing (little breezes).

  

 I can imagine, if I had another control on my stick, I would be adjusting the RPM the same time as I make flight control inputs.

  

 But then again, I am thinking of installing a foot controlled throttle. Do you think it should be to the right of the rudder peddles or in between? (Kidding!!)

  

 With all the discussions on the topic, safety?

  



	


Need more speed?  Get  Xtra Broadband!

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Hi Ken,



I've seen a few adaptations in the past for

disabilities.  Most were invented by the individual,

but I bet the EAA has a few ideas available for you.



I once met a man driving a BMW motorcycle with a hook

on his left arm.  All the controls were moved to the

right side.  Clutch, break, throttle, signals....



Would it work for you to put a strap over the right

peddle so that you could push and pull it?  You would

need a cable interconnect to make it work the other

side when you pull.  Torgier once drew up such an

arrangement for us a while back.  He is a wiz for

finding info too.



Maybe widen the top of the peddle so that you could

put a break on either side of the peddle arm.  Toe

push left, right or both brakes by moving your foot?



If you don't like the motorcycle throttle, how about a

big "L" shapped bar or second stick extending from or

below the panel?  Push and pull for throttle, swing

laterally like your stick, but for rudder?  Fly with

both hands?



Lots of ideas available....  No reason not to fly.



Kurt S.



--- Kenneth and Alice Jones <kmamjones(at)comcast.net>

wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Cut Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip

 throttle caught my attention. 

 I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left

 leg from polio as a 

 child - not enough strength for left rudder.  I used

 to fly an RV-4. Sold it 

 to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I

 had left rudder and left 

 brake hand controls on the RV-4.  On landings I cut

 the power to idle when 

 the field was made.  I needed the left hand for

 rudder (particularly on 

 crosswinds) and right for the stick.   I never did

 wheel landings - a bit 

 too cautious I guess. I don't know much about

 motorcycles.  Could a 

 motorcycle grip throttle be installed on the S7

 stick, but still have a 

 regular throttle for others would might fly the

 plane?  I'm using a Rotax 

 912S, which, of course, has two carbs. Sure, I could

 probably fly the S7 

 like the RV-4, but I would much rather have use of

 the throttle on the 

 landing and roll-out - more options, you know.  I

 hadn't thought about the 

 motorcycle grip before. Is it even feasible to run

 two throttle cables to 

 two carbs? How could the motorcycle throttle be

 locked to maintain cruise 

 RPM? Any ideas would be appreciated. If this sounds

 a little dumb, have some 

 compassion - I'm a good accountant - not an

 engineer.

 

 Ken Jones 


	


__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

There is a very well known NZ helicopter pilot that had a very bad crash some years back. Very wealthy chap with his own fleet of aircraft including war birds etc. After the serious accident he was left with no movement in his left leg so designed a stirrup system on the right pedal of his Hughes 500 and to see him fly you would know he has a disability. I realize the helicopter is a bit easier than a f/w for pedal input but food for thought. Come to think of it he used to fly his Spitfire  this way too, but did have a bad accident in that also.

 

 [quote]   

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Date:  Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:08:07 -0700 (PDT)

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Hi Ken,



I've seen a few adaptations in the past for

disabilities.  Most were invented by the individual,

but I bet the EAA has a few ideas available for you.



I once met a man driving a BMW motorcycle with a hook

on his left arm.  All the controls were moved to the

right side.  Clutch, break, throttle, signals....



Would it work for you to put a strap over the right

peddle so that you could push and pull  it?  You would

need a cable interconnect to make it work the other

side when you pull.  Torgier once drew up such an

arrangement for us a while back.  He is a wiz for

finding info too.



Maybe widen the top of the peddle so that you could

put a break on either side of the peddle arm.  Toe

push left, right or both brakes by moving your foot?



If you don't like the motorcycle throttle, how about a

big "L" shapped bar or second stick extending from or

below the panel?  Push and pull for throttle, swing

laterally like your stick, but for rudder?  Fly with

both hands?



Lots of ideas available....  No reason not to fly.



Kurt S.



--- Kenneth and Alice Jones <kmamjones(at)comcast.net>

wrote:



[quote] Cut Schrader's comment about a motorcycle grip

  throttle caught my attention.

 I'm building an S7 taildragger. I have a bad left

 leg from polio as a

 child - not enough strength for left rudder.  I used

 to fly an RV-4. Sold it

 to build the Kitfox - no need for speed anymore. I

 had left rudder and left

 brake hand controls on the RV-4.  On landings I cut

 the power to idle when

 the field was made.  I needed the left hand for

 rudder (particularly on

 crosswinds) and right for the stick.   I never did

 wheel landings - a bit

 too cautious I guess. I don't know much about

 motorcycles.  Could a

 motorcycle grip throttle be installed on the S7

 stick, but still have a

 regular throttle for others would might fly the

 plane?  I'm using a Rotax

fultz(at)trip.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Ken,



  What about a throttle set up similar to that on a 4-wheeler with an

adjustable friction control?  Just another thought.  There's no doubt in my

mind that something, that will work for you, can be had.  You might just

well need that throttle when you have both hands busy with other chores.



Andy F.



--

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Thanks to those who responded to my request for0 help.  While I'm at least a year away from engine installation, I'll start0 now on the research phase.  I think I'll start by visiting a few motorcycle0 dealers to see how their systems work.

  

 Ken Jones

    ---

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Ken,



August 06 'Sport Aviation' - page 17 Note on - "Disabled Pilot Options.... " offered for those unable to operate rudder peddles. 

 

Sounds like it's worth a look.



www.SkyArrowUSA.com

or

www.HansenAirGroup.com

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: Motorcycle grip Throttle

Richard:

     Thanks for the posting.  I talked to the Hansen Air Group today.  The 

gentleman I spoke with told me that for liability reasons they do not sell 

their disabled pilot kit for use on aircraft other than the Sky Arrow. 

Never-the-less the general idea of a throttle on the hand rudder control 

looks promising, and perhaps a better alternative than a throttle on the 

stick.  I will look into doing something like it with the help of some EAA 

friends and motorcycle experts.  It shouldn't be too hard.  I had a hand 

rudder control on my RV-4, so I already have that experience.  I already 

planned for, and must have, a similar control on my Kitfox S7.  So adding a 

twist grip throttle may not be that difficult. This still leaves the problem 

of running two separate throttle cables to two carbs so I can also have a 

standard centered push-pull throttle for others (like my grandsons) who 

might fly the plane the normal way.

     I must say my question to the "List" has resulted in some very 

interesting and I think doable suggestions.

Thanks again

Ken Jones

---

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