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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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Greetings -7 fuselage builders,
I've got a glitch with my F-770 forward side skins. With the mid section
belly skin clecoed to the tailcone (at) F706, when I add the F770 side
skins & cleco them to the F704, 705 & 706 bulkheads I get a 'pucker' in
the bottom edge of the skin between the rear spar carry-through & the
change in angle of the bottom skin where the F-770 curved portion
starts. This is where the 770 would (I assume) get riveted to the flange
of the F-623 rib that lies flat in the belly skin on each side.
Both sides do this. I've removed one skin & rolled the bottom corner to
fit the tailcone, & it still has the 'pucker'. With the 770 clecoed to
F705 bulkhead there is about a 1/4" gap at midpoint between the rear
spar & the point at which the curved transistion begins.
Again, one side has been curved to transition around to the belly & the
other is still unbent; both exhibit the same bulge.
Related question: I see in my instructions one note that says 'don't
install the F-623 ribs now' but I can't find any instruction to actually
install them. Anyone seen that instruction? All I've seen is an
instruction to install the forward doubler attach tab for the F-623's.
Thanks,
Charlie
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dhall(at)donka.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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The directions get more vague with every step eh?
I'm just a few steps ahead of you. I'm about to rivet the side skins into
place. I don't have any "pucker", but I think I know what you're referring
to. Where the bend in the side skin begins, there's essentially about a
partial #30 size hole drilled at the corner likely to discourage cracking.
I think there's an inevitable amount of daylight that will be visible
through that "hole" at the intersection of the bottom skin, side skin and
623 rib.
In my case, I feel confident that it's all fitting like it appears it
should, and I do expect some daylight at this point. I expect it will look a
little better after riveting, so I'm reserving final judgement. I might
plunk a dab of proseal or rtv in that area from the inside.
Here's a pic of my fuse from when I was originally doing the bend. Note that
I smoothed out the two small sharp points in the side skin at that
intersection. I'll take another pic of that intersection after I rivet it.
(Might be a few weeks out due to imminent biz trip...)
http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=rv7fwdsection&id=DSC06
382
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 fuselage
http://rv7.donka.net
******************************************
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dan(at)rvproject.com
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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Thanks for the pics.
My side skin actually bulges out about 1/4" at the midpoint between that
#30 hole (where you start the curve) & the rear-spar carry-through. The
rivet line extending from tail forward along the forward side skins at
the top longerons are straight, with all clecos in place, so I'm pretty
confident in my construction technique, so far.
When I didn't hear anything from the lists over the weekend, I called
Van's yesterday & talked to Tom. He says that the side skin isn't
supposed to meet the belly skin in that area; that the F623 should fill
the gap (of at least 1/8") & the flap will hide it when everything is
assembled. He advised me to remove the clecos tying the mid belly skin
to the tailcone belly skin & see if the gap would close (yes, it does,
at the expense of all those 'matched' holes misaligning by about almost
their full diameters).
Note: my instructions say to drill the F623 ribs to the belly skin (not
rivet) early in the midsection assembly process, with no reference to
fitting them to the side skins. Since they aren't prepunched, the only
reference points to do that are the edges of the belly skin & the F705
bulkhead. After that was pointed out, he said he'd make a note of it.
He offered to send new F623's, no charge (thanks Tom), that & said to
reposition them outboard to (hopefully) take up the slack in the side
skins. After getting off the phone, I played with one of the F623's &
tried to re-contour the flange & move it outboard slightly but the gap
is just too big. I also clecoed in the vertical stiffener (724??) that
ends at the bend start point & that also takes out a bit of the bulge,
but not enough to cure the problem.
Charlie
Don Hall wrote:
[quote]
The directions get more vague with every step eh?
I'm just a few steps ahead of you. I'm about to rivet the side skins into
place. I don't have any "pucker", but I think I know what you're referring
to. Where the bend in the side skin begins, there's essentially about a
partial #30 size hole drilled at the corner likely to discourage cracking.
I think there's an inevitable amount of daylight that will be visible
through that "hole" at the intersection of the bottom skin, side skin and
623 rib.
In my case, I feel confident that it's all fitting like it appears it
should, and I do expect some daylight at this point. I expect it will look a
little better after riveting, so I'm reserving final judgement. I might
plunk a dab of proseal or rtv in that area from the inside.
Here's a pic of my fuse from when I was originally doing the bend. Note that
I smoothed out the two small sharp points in the side skin at that
intersection. I'll take another pic of that intersection after I rivet it.
(Might be a few weeks out due to imminent biz trip...)
http://donka.net/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=rv7fwdsection&id=DSC06
382
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 fuselage
http://rv7.donka.net
******************************************
--
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davcor(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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Thanks for the discussion of this. It seems there are alot of us working on
the same area now.
I have been following this discussion and thought well I've got pucker on
both sides, but
maybe it'll work it self out as I move along.
Nope, toss the current 623's into the "spare aluminum" bucket,
Just got off the phone with Scott((at) VANs) new f-623- (l & r) are on the way
for me too
Thanks again!
Dave
RV7 - 70898 -fuse forward side skins...
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dhall(at)donka.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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Thanks Dan, I'll have you know that you already corrected me about a week
ago. I browsed that section of your site before driving the first rivet and
noticed my faux pas before any harm was done. I'll add a note to that pic.
Don
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dhall(at)donka.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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OK, I uploaded another couple pics. Y'all have me second guessing. :>
Do you have a picture of your pucker?
The directions have you fit and drill the 623 rib so that the outside of the
flanges line up with the bottom skin. If you do that, then would not the
side skins abut the bottom skin and the 623 flange snugly? When I put it
all together, it looks like my pics, partially riveted. I didn't have to
force anything uncomfortably... Now seeing a hole\gap at the intersection
seemed initially un-vans-like, but I reasoned this as sensible because of
the nature of the transition from the boxy part of the fuselage to the curvy
aft section. And, as you said, the flap has a built-in gap seal with the
fuse.
Anyway, it's pretty nice to know there are a couple other people so close to
where I'm at in construction.
I'm curious to know when you plan to order the finish kit, or whether you
already have. I just kinda decided I would order the finishing kit when I
tip the canoe, which is just around the corner. My general goal is that I
hope to rcv the finishing kit maybe 2-4 weeks after finishing the fuse kit.
(break for family life) And I'm also curious to know when y'all plan to
order engine and instruments relative to these stages of construction. The
cost curve is starting to get to the hockey stick.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 fuselage
http://rv7.donka.net
******************************************
--
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dhall(at)donka.net
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question |
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Don,
I added your email address, just in case the images don't make it to the
list.
1192 is rt side. Corner is rolled & clecoed, 623 is unmodified, side
skin clecoed to all 3 bulkheads & bottom skins clecoed to each other,
baggage area horizontal & vertical stiffeners clecoed into the side skin
(vertical stiffener installation removed about 1/2 the pucker, but still
unacceptable; riveting must start at rear spar, pushing excess to the
roll transition, creating high stress at the #30 hole intended to be the
stress reliever.)
1193 is left side. Corner is unrolled, 623 has had flange rebent
slightly in an attempt to fill the gap, side skin clecoed to all 3
bulkheads & bottom skins clecoed together, no horizontal or vertical
stiffeners installed.
Just out of curiosity: when you tucked the roll inside the bottom skin,
did your 'pucker' get better or worse?
Charlie
Don Hall wrote:
[quote]
OK, I uploaded another couple pics. Y'all have me second guessing. :>
Do you have a picture of your pucker?
The directions have you fit and drill the 623 rib so that the outside of the
flanges line up with the bottom skin. If you do that, then would not the
side skins abut the bottom skin and the 623 flange snugly? When I put it
all together, it looks like my pics, partially riveted. I didn't have to
force anything uncomfortably... Now seeing a hole\gap at the intersection
seemed initially un-vans-like, but I reasoned this as sensible because of
the nature of the transition from the boxy part of the fuselage to the curvy
aft section. And, as you said, the flap has a built-in gap seal with the
fuse.
Anyway, it's pretty nice to know there are a couple other people so close to
where I'm at in construction.
I'm curious to know when you plan to order the finish kit, or whether you
already have. I just kinda decided I would order the finishing kit when I
tip the canoe, which is just around the corner. My general goal is that I
hope to rcv the finishing kit maybe 2-4 weeks after finishing the fuse kit.
(break for family life) And I'm also curious to know when y'all plan to
order engine and instruments relative to these stages of construction. The
cost curve is starting to get to the hockey stick.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 fuselage
http://rv7.donka.net
******************************************
--
| | - The Matronics RV7-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV7-List |
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