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Hard Landing
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.

Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.

Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!

John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

[quote][b]


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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.


On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

[quote] Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position.  Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed.  The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
 
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
 
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
 
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

Quote:

[b]


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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.
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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

By the way, John, if you put your approximate location in your signature nearby folks that can help you will be more likely to respond. And yes, I understand the security issues.

Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.

On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

[quote] Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position.  Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed.  The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
 
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
 
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
 
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

Quote:

[b]


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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.
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Pat Reilly



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

John, I had to replace bent tubing in the cluster weld area at that location twice. As Guy said, easiest way is to cut fabric away as far back as you have to go to avoid burning it, cut out the bent tubing, find the proper size tubing to sleeve inside and/or outside, and grab the torch. It isn't rocket science. Just a pain in the ass welding upside down on your back especially..... Oh ....then it's fabric covering and paint time.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.


On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

Quote:
Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position.  Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed.  The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
 
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
 
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
 
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

Quote:


Quote:


arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL

[quote][b]


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lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

John,
Sorry to hear about your experience. A local guy had a similar experience and it happened again after his home brew fix. Apparently he hammered some of the tubing back to straight and there were hammer marks that I suspect reduced the strength of some of the tubing. On the second one, I helped a bit with the repair welding in some new tubing and making some gussets to strengthen the structure around the door.

Thinking what I might do: First, straighten everything the best I can to get everything in alignment. Then any tube that has a wrinkle or slight bend, I would cut out and replace, starting with the straight pieces and finishing with all the fish mouth butt welded tubes. depending on what happens when I make the first cut - things jump out of alignment showing hidden stress, I might weld up a jig to hold everything straight as I progressed through the repair.

I doubt Kitfox will be any help at all. I recall that one of our members tried to purchase a IV kit a few years ago and was essentially told that the factory had the jigs and tooling buried out back, as I recall him telling the story.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Lowell


From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 9:19 AM
To: kitfox-list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Hard Landing


Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.

Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.

Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!

John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

[quote]

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
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href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:54 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Thanks to all who have and will respond for the encouragement and suggestions. Will keep you posted on the progress.

John


From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43(at)gmail.com>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 3:22:45 PM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing


John, I had to replace bent tubing in the cluster weld area at that location twice. As Guy said, easiest way is to cut fabric away as far back as you have to go to avoid burning it, cut out the bent tubing, find the proper size tubing to sleeve inside and/or outside, and grab the torch. It isn't rocket science. Just a pain in the ass welding upside down on your back especially..... Oh ....then it's fabric covering and paint time.


Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

Quote:
Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.

Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.

Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!

John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

Quote:


Quote:


arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL

Quote:



[quote][b]


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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Unfortunately, in Utah I have been the go-to guy on everything kitfox for 19 years, but then there are only a handfull in the state, half of which I have help with the build.

Right now scrambling to find a welder with experience with tube fabrication.

John


From: "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 1:27:06 PM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing


By the way, John, if you put your approximate location in your signature nearby folks that can help you will be more likely to respond. And yes, I understand the security issues.

Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.

On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

Quote:
Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.

Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.

Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!

John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours

Quote:




[quote][b]


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SkySteve



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Hard Landing Reply with quote

John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric. He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson


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Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Thanks, that may just what I need.

John


From: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 10:16:45 AM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing


--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org>


John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric.  He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson


--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


Read this topic online here:


http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440242#440242



&nbs=================



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SkySteve



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Hard Landing Reply with quote

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

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Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> wrote:



John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615












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SkySteve



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Yep. And strength, durability, stability, quality, looks, etc.

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_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.



On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:

[quote]
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615





[b]


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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.
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Dick Maddux



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:30 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Or you could go with the "bush gear" as I have on my aircraft. Gear spread goes from 4 ft to 7 ft and you achieve greater stability on the ground as well as in the air on final (outrigger effect) PLUS the gear weight is about the same as the original. In my case, I weighed each of the pieces before mounting the gear as well as weighing the original gear and I actually came out a couple of lbs lighter with the "bush gear"
I am EXTREMELY happy with the "bush gear" ! It requires no maintenance (no bungees) and was easy to install. Have had it installed for a few years now.
    Dick Maddux
    Fox 4 
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:25 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Yes in the good old days.  My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy.  It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows.  There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches.  Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation  for folding up in ground loops.  Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:[quote] Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.



On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615







arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


[b]


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falcon43



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Have not wrote in for years. Can I use my wheels on the bush gear?
Harry Cieslar, Avid Magnum, Ontario, Canada

From: Guy Buchanan (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 1:42 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Hard Landing


Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.

On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:

[quote]
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= mailto:jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

I agree with most of what has been said. I really like my Grove gear. But for those enthusiasts who want the look and feel of the classic Kitfox experience, I have unused Model 4 bungee landing gear that I put on Barnstormers. Respond direct on this list for a better deal. I also have available an unused Twin Pin Door Latch kit. Yup, it must be Spring. Time to straighten up the hangar!

Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 07:25:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hard Landing
From: lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Yes in the good old days.  My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy.  It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows.  There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches.  Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation  for folding up in ground loops.  Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <[url=mailto:gebuchanan(at)cox.net]gebuchanan(at)cox.net[/url]> wrote:
[quote] Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.



On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= [url=mailto:jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com]<jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>[/url]

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve [url=mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org]<Wilson(at)REinfo.org>[/url] wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" [url=mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org]<Wilson(at)REinfo.org>[/url]

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


Read this topic online here:

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Dick Maddux wrote:
I am EXTREMELY happy with the "bush gear" ! It requires no maintenance (no bungees) and was easy to install. Have had it installed for a few years now.


I agree. I installed the Highwing LLC version of the bush gear, and it was the best modification that I have made to my Kitfox IV. Too bad they no longer produce Kitfox parts, they were a great group to deal with.

falcon43 wrote:
Can I use my wheels on the bush gear?


You could with the Highwing LLC version, but as I recall you have to get new axels with the Kitfox brand version.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

To all; the lower longeron and related tubing has been repaired, spiced per FAA manual and the reassembly began in earnest this morning.

Still deciding on the gear choice. My experience with the tube gear mirrors the comments of others; all of them. The bungee failed on the right side, trashing the gear. The left side bungee held, trashing the longeron structure at the gear attach points. Guy's comments are among the few negative comments on the spring gear.

Steve's suggestion of a welder proved excellent. less than two week turnaround including shipping of the material. Thanks again.

Also, picked up a referral on someone to do the fiberglass repairs.

Will keep you posted.

John


From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt3(at)gmail.com>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 8:25:20 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Hard Landing



Yes in the good old days. My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy. It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows. There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches. Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation for folding up in ground loops.  Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.

Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.

On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)

There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...

José
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)

John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:06 pm    Post subject: Hard Landing Reply with quote

Reviewing old messages. Joe did an excellent job for me. Thanks for referral

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 3, 2015, at 10:16 AM, "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> wrote:

Quote:


John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric. He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson

--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel




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