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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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 Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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I just received a case of Aeroshell Sport Plus from Aircraft Spruce. It was back ordered and took about a month to get here - About $119 plus shipping for 12 quarts. It seems highly recommended by the Rotax community and is reported to be formulated specifically with the Rotax 912 series in mind and to help with the lead scavenging needed when running 100LL Mark uses a Honda motorcycle oil with the gear additive. The gear additive is the prime ingredient as some motorcycles use the engine oil to lubricate the transmission as well which is the common factor.
As for as the coolant. I think the main issue here is to use a coolant that is Silicate free. As far as the Evan's coolant is concerned, I am personally not a fan at least as far as our application goes. Some Rotax installations have cooling problems and require a water free coolant to prevent boiling with the high temps they frequently see. I just checked the current Service Bulletin and that is the implication there. In our Kitfox installations, that is not a problem. I was talking yesterday to a friend with a Model IV and 912S and he is talking about a thermostat because on a recent cross country flight he saw cylinderr head temps as low as 105 degrees (Far from the need of a waterless coolant as Rotax describes them). I personally use Prestone Extended Life. Not because I think it is the best necessarily, but rather it was convenient and meets the specs as I understand them.
Lowell
From: Guy Buchanan (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:38 AM
To: Kitfox list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:07 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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Lowell,
Thanks for the reply. How much of each for a full change?
Guy
Sent from my iPod
On May 27, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt3(at)gmail.com (lcfitt3(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] I just received a case of Aeroshell Sport Plus from Aircraft Spruce. It was back ordered and took about a month to get here - About $119 plus shipping for 12 quarts. It seems highly recommended by the Rotax community and is reported to be formulated specifically with the Rotax 912 series in mind and to help with the lead scavenging needed when running 100LL Mark uses a Honda motorcycle oil with the gear additive. The gear additive is the prime ingredient as some motorcycles use the engine oil to lubricate the transmission as well which is the common factor.
As for as the coolant. I think the main issue here is to use a coolant that is Silicate free. As far as the Evan's coolant is concerned, I am personally not a fan at least as far as our application goes. Some Rotax installations have cooling problems and require a water free coolant to prevent boiling with the high temps they frequently see. I just checked the current Service Bulletin and that is the implication there. In our Kitfox installations, that is not a problem. I was talking yesterday to a friend with a Model IV and 912S and he is talking about a thermostat because on a recent cross country flight he saw cylinderr head temps as low as 105 degrees (Far from the need of a waterless coolant as Rotax describes them). I personally use Prestone Extended Life. Not because I think it is the best necessarily, but rather it was convenient and meets the specs as I understand them.
Lowell
From: Guy Buchanan (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:38 AM
To: Kitfox list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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My memory is not always accurate, sometimes remember things that didn't happen. But, it seems the evans coolant was removed from the approved list about a year ago because of unsatisfactory results in the field.
As for oil. There is a list of approved oils which is updated periodically, probably on the rotax site. The basic theme is motorcycle 4 cycle oil with gear additive. Mobil 1 gets high marks if less than 10% use of 100LL.
Anyone else have similar recollections.
John Kerr
Logan UT
From: "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net>
To: "Kitfox list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:38:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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Oil quantity? I find the 3 quarts usually blows off some excess, though I understand later tanks might be slightly larger. Proceed with measured care.
John Kerr
From: "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net>
To: "Kitfox list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:38:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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leach(at)farmside.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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As others have said I think Rotax removed Evans coolant from the approved list. Our New Zealand Rotax agent recommends Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 oil and Castrol Radicool 50/50 coolant. The ratio of water will depend entirely on how cold it gets at your place. Quantities are about 3 litres of oil and the same of coolant but will depend on your type of oil cooler and installation etc. It is very difficult to see how much oil you have actually got in the tank. The small dipstick hole gets oil coated in it and new oil is almost invisable. After you add oil to the tank let it drain for several minutes before checking the level and spray your dipstick with mat black paint. After you are sure how much oil is in the tank clean the paint off again. Follow the Rotax proceedure for putting 5 psi of air pressure in the oil tank to initially prime the oil system. The whole system holds a lot of oil and you need to top up the tank when priming. And don't forget to check the valve lifters.
Brian
[quote]
From: "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net>
To: "Kitfox list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:38:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Here's an easy one. My 912's almost ready for start and I'm sure at least Lowell knows the answer to these difficult questions:
- How much of what kind of oil? (I realize installs will differ slightly, but realistically only a little.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
- How much of what kind of coolant? (Pretty sure it's Evan's but don't know if there's a cool replacement out.)
- Where's the best place to get it?
Thanks all!
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Dick Maddux
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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Guy,
I just attended a 912 course (my 4th) and the instructor (number 2 at the Rotax Flying Club) said that Sport 4 is not necessarily the best oil to use. He stated that Rotax has some interest in the oil (i.e.,: kickback) and its additives are not the best. I trust what he says because he has a major Rotax engine shop and mfg'rs "big bore" kits for the 912 as well. He always has engines apart from customers that have had various failures
Also he said Evans is not the way to go for coolant. The antifreeze mix is far better (which I use)
Now, with that said, I have been using Sport 4 and have a small stock left and will use that up rather than buying a different oil.
Dick Maddux
912 UL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:52 am Post subject: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities |
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FYI… Service Instruction SI-012i-001R3 912-016R8 914-019R8 Selection of Suitable Operating Fluids.
Notice the notes: pg 3 of the pdf. There is a completely new formulation of the Aeroshell Sport +4 product. It is in a Red bottle. The old formulation (black bottle) can be used until the expiration date.
Side Note: We have been running the Sport Plus 4+ since the introduction on the factory aircraft and on 3 flight school aircraft. No adverse effects or issues. The flight school aircraft are running 80+ hours a month.
And yes… Rotax does get a return on the Aeroshell Sport +4 product.. The Aeroshell Sport +4 is also manufactured in the UK.. was told the kickback was because of the testing an time invested by Rotax in conjunction with Aeroshell and therefore Aeroshell is the only oil that can display the Rotax name and Logo.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 6:15 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox IV / 912 Oil and water quantities
Guy,
I just attended a 912 course (my 4th) and the instructor (number 2 at the Rotax Flying Club) said that Sport 4 is not necessarily the best oil to use. He stated that Rotax has some interest in the oil (i.e.,: kickback) and its additives are not the best. I trust what he says because he has a major Rotax engine shop and mfg'rs "big bore" kits for the 912 as well. He always has engines apart from customers that have had various failures
Also he said Evans is not the way to go for coolant. The antifreeze mix is far better (which I use)
Now, with that said, I have been using Sport 4 and have a small stock left and will use that up rather than buying a different oil.
Dick Maddux
912 UL
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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05/27/15
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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