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Vi Kapler hinges
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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1532
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:37 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Update on the cast aluminum tail hinges. Monday I'm mailing out John Recine's hinges (thanks for your patience, John). Next on the list are Bill Budgell, Clay Hammond, and John Hofmann,if you fellows are still interested in a set. If there is anybody that is desperate to have a set or is completely stalled in your build without them, let me know and perhaps someone at the head of the list will give way to you. I currently have 13 people on the waiting list for sets of hinges and I'm woefully behind in delivering them, but if I can get some free weekends this summer, I can cut thewaitinglist by half. Maybe the other half will have their hinges for fall and winter building?! I could turn them out twice as fast if I had a helper, but it's all hand work and I don't have anyone with the heart or desire or knowledge to help me make them. It's OK though... like the Air Camper, I'll get there eventually;o)

I am growing to admire Vi Kapler more and more every time I finish a set of these hinges. His jigs and methods are completely true to the 1930s way of doing things, especially before we had access to CNC mills, molded materials, and so much precision machinery in the home workshop. The tooling (if you can call it that) is simple and it istedious to turn out the parts one at a time. The parts that are produced are completely different from one piece to the next but they are rugged and simple. I do not, and cannot, finish them to complete polished finality. It would simply take too much time and effort, and I find that most Air Camper builders would rather put the finishing touches on things themselves anyway. Although the parts can be used as-is, right out of the box, with just a little final fitting to make themrun freely throughout their arcs once they are pinned and in place they will make the builder much happier with the outcome. I leave them just abit tight and beefy when I finish themso that they can be filed or ground down to suit the builder in each of the ninedifferent positions where they are mounted on the tail group. It's better to smooth them out with a little filing asyou fit themthan to wonder how you can remove excess play if I finish them too loose. But like I say, anyone can install them in the as-received condition and in just one or two flying seasons they will smooth out nicely if they're a bit tight to begin with.

In any case, if I sell a set of hinges to anyone who is not happy with them, I will gladly take them back and deliver a full refund. Thanks all, for your patience.

Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Medford, OR

[quote][b]


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Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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Vincent Dunn



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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Location: Salem, OR

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Hello again, Oscar. I need a set of (9) hinges also for my tail. Are you still producing them. Let me know the details and thank you very much,
Vincent Dunn


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Vincent;

I guess you could say I'm still producing them, but not at a very fast pace. I'm finishing up three sets today that will bring the waiting list to less than 25 on the waiting list now. I am not offering them in ready-to-install condition anymore, but I do all of the rough shaping and the operations that require jigs (drilling/countersinking the base mounting holes and cross-drilling the holes for the hinge pins). The cost for a set of 9 pairs of hinges in this condition is $45 USD, postage paid in the US. However, I do not take deposits or prepayments... you only pay when your parts ship.

I have found that I can turn out 3 sets of these semi-finished hinges in a weekend, so even if I worked at cranking them out every weekend, I would still be a couple of months behind. Unfortunately, I rarely have any time off these days so it's just a hit-or-miss affair. Plus my work area is outdoors so when the weather is bad, I'm not motivated to get out there and stand at the workbench for hours at a time. But I'm nibbling away at the list.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

There are 26 on the list. Hope I'm still alive when you finish my set.
Corky

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Mar 5, 2017, at 5:15 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Vincent;

I guess you could say I'm still producing them, but not at a very fast pace. I'm finishing up three sets today that will bring the waiting list to less than 25 on the waiting list now. I am not offering them in ready-to-install condition anymore, but I do all of the rough shaping and the operations that require jigs (drilling/countersinking the base mounting holes and cross-drilling the holes for the hinge pins). The cost for a set of 9 pairs of hinges in this condition is $45 USD, postage paid in the US. However, I do not take deposits or prepayments... you only pay when your parts ship.

I have found that I can turn out 3 sets of these semi-finished hinges in a weekend, so even if I worked at cranking them out every weekend, I would still be a couple of months behind. Unfortunately, I rarely have any time off these days so it's just a hit-or-miss affair. Plus my work area is outdoors so when the weather is bad, I'm not motivated to get out there and stand at the workbench for hours at a time. But I'm nibbling away at the list.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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wheelharp



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Ironton MO

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oscar, do you have any photos of the process of making the hinges, and what type of aluminum do you use for casting? I have a charcoal fired foundry for another project, and thought of casting my hinges when the time comes. I know you probably really enjoy making them, and are taking in massive piles of cash at $45 a set, but..... : )

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Jon Jones
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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

'wheelharp'-

I do not make the castings myself... I have them cast in batches as needed, by a secret source somewhere in middle America to which I'm very grateful for making parts that could possibly go into experimental airplanes but then again might just be hinges for handmade jewelry boxes. If you know what I mean. I'm just not sure that my source will still be available next time I'm out of castings.

I would be happy to send you some of my reject castings to examine if you're interested in making your own molds and parts... just let me know. Happy to let you tap into the millions of dollars that are out there to be made, easy money, hand-fabricating hinges for Air Camper tail surfaces. I'm easily on my second million already (hours, not dollars ;o)

I have no idea which specific alloy is used in the castings but from load testing it and machining it I can tell you that it's tough, strong, and just a bit brittle. I think it's A380 but don't know for sure. It is good material for these parts. You can see the general steps of how the parts are made from the rough castings here:

http://www.flysquirrel.net/RogueAir/hinges.html . You can see the results of my load testing of a set of the hinges here:

http://www.flysquirrel.net/loadtest.html . They are very stout pieces, and quite a bit of the rough cast surfaces can be machined and polished away to make them pretty without diminishing their strength very much, but not much was done to the ones on my airplane to pretty them up and the only thing I would do if I had the time and inclination would be to square up the faces of the two outer tabs so that the head of the clevis pin and washer under the cotter pin on the other end of it would fit flat and square. I think if I did this, I could get clevis pins that might be one AN-dash size shorter than the ones that are on there now and save perhaps a gram of weight out there on the tail ;o)


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Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
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wheelharp



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oscar,

Thanks for all the info! The link to your hinge making process is over the top. I really appreciate your tireless contributions to the Pietenpol (and aviation in general) community. I always look forward to your posts, and BECAUSE you are such a nice guy, I will NOT be going into mass production of Mr. Kapler's hinges : )

Seriously though, one thing that really stood out to me was your numbers relating to hinge weight moment (requiring 18lbs of fuel to counter) This really drives home the point of watching every single ounce of weight in the tail feathers!

Jon


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Jon;

I will admit to using the example of CG impact of the weight of the complete set of tail surface hinges vs. fuel in the tank for dramatic effect, but it does drive home the point. No matter what a builder uses for hinges back there, it's going to weigh something but you can at least be aware of what's going out on the tail and try to keep it light. On my airplane, the approximate moment arm from the datum to the tail surface hinge location is about +164" and the moment arm from the datum to the fuel location in the nose is about -4" so you can see that there is about a 40:1 advantage to anything that goes out on the tail compared to things that go out in front of the wing. Pretty much anything you do in the front cockpit, landing gear, or rear cockpit instrument panel will not affect the CG much at all but will affect the gross weight. If you have your fuel in the wing centersection, the CG will not shift noticeably with fuel burn. Whatever you do with a passenger or with baggage that you place in the front cockpit will not affect CG but will affect gross weight. The front cockpit is a magical area... things that you put in it don't affect the CG, but getting anything into it is a magic trick in itself ;o)

In my airplane (16 gal. nose tank), after I fuel up I have to hold back stick for at least the first hour after topping off. For the second hour or so, everything is nicely balanced because fuel has burned off and the slight nose heaviness eases off and the altimeter doesn't seem to want to keep unwinding on me. After that, I don't even notice the stick pressure because I'm too focused on the (float-and-rod) fuel gauge and am looking for a rest stop ;o)


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Ray Krause



Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oscar,

I did not see your write up on the effect of the weight of the hinges on the CG that was referenced in this series. Could you send it to me? I really enjoy your writings.

I'm sure I understand what it must have said because I'm dealing with the CG of my SkyScout....fun!

Thanks,
Ray Krause

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, at 9:24 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Jon;

I will admit to using the example of CG impact of the weight of the complete set of tail surface hinges vs. fuel in the tank for dramatic effect, but it does drive home the point. No matter what a builder uses for hinges back there, it's going to weigh something but you can at least be aware of what's going out on the tail and try to keep it light. On my airplane, the approximate moment arm from the datum to the tail surface hinge location is about +164" and the moment arm from the datum to the fuel location in the nose is about -4" so you can see that there is about a 40:1 advantage to anything that goes out on the tail compared to things that go out in front of the wing. Pretty much anything you do in the front cockpit, landing gear, or rear cockpit instrument panel will not affect the CG much at all but will affect the gross weight. If you have your fuel in the wing centersection, the CG will not shift noticeably with fuel burn. Whatever you do with a passenger or wi!
th baggage that you place in the front cockpit will not affect CG but will affect gross weight. The front cockpit is a magical area... things that you put in it don't affect the CG, but getting anything into it is a magic trick in itself ;o)

In my airplane (16 gal. nose tank), after I fuel up I have to hold back stick for at least the first hour after topping off. For the second hour or so, everything is nicely balanced because fuel has burned off and the slight nose heaviness eases off and the altimeter doesn't seem to want to keep unwinding on me. After that, I don't even notice the stick pressure because I'm too focused on the (float-and-rod) fuel gauge and am looking for a rest stop ;o)

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Ray; my comment about the weight of the hinges is on the "how the hinges are made" webpage that I posted the link to. Down at the bottom of that page is a picture of a finished pair of the hinges with this caption:

"... and here, after some 396 separate hand operations, is a pair of hinges. Approximate weight of this pair of hinges, minus the mounting screws and pivot pin hardware, is 0.64 oz, or about 0.38 lb for the complete set of 9 pairs. Since all of this weight is aft of the CG and on a very long moment arm, keeping these parts light is important. Believe it or not, the moment created by this 1/3 of a pound for a set of hinge castings out at the tail of my Air Camper is the same as that created by 3 gallons of fuel (18 lbs) in the nose tank. Use thin AN washers on the clevis pins, don't use pins that are any longer than necessary, and clip the excess leg lengths off the cotter pins before setting them."


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Ray Krause



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oscar,

Thanks for the response. Now I wish I had made my motor mount another 2" longer for my SkyScout. But by slanting my cabanas back almost 6", I'm now where I should be with the CG. With a 200lb butt in the cockpit, my CG is fine until I get down to 30 minutes of fuel left. That means I've flown for over two hours, not too likely! Maybe by the time I fly it, I can loose 10 lbs!

Thanks,
Ray

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Mar 8, 2017, at 7:53 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Ray; my comment about the weight of the hinges is on the "how the hinges are made" webpage that I posted the link to. Down at the bottom of that page is a picture of a finished pair of the hinges with this caption:

"... and here, after some 396 separate hand operations, is a pair of hinges. Approximate weight of this pair of hinges, minus the mounting screws and pivot pin hardware, is 0.64 oz, or about 0.38 lb for the complete set of 9 pairs. Since all of this weight is aft of the CG and on a very long moment arm, keeping these parts light is important. Believe it or not, the moment created by this 1/3 of a pound for a set of hinge castings out at the tail of my Air Camper is the same as that created by 3 gallons of fuel (18 lbs) in the nose tank. Use thin AN washers on the clevis pins, don't use pins that are any longer than necessary, and clip the excess leg lengths off the cotter pins before setting them."

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

OK, so another update on the cast aluminum hinges. I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I just sent out 3 sets of hinges and hand-delivered a 4th set to a builder a couple of days ago. More good news is that I've started on 4 more sets out of 21 that are on the waiting list, so slowly but surely I'm getting there ;o)

The bad news is that of my remaining stock of rough castings, I have just enough to finish the sets for the people on the waiting list, and not a single set more. With a little luck, I'll have everyone on the list supplied with hinges by summer and will be all out of rough castings to make any more.

Now for more possible good news: I've contacted the person who supplies me with the rough castings and he got right back to me. He's going to see if the foundry can run me off another batch of enough to make another 20-25 sets. Fingers crossed!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:05 am    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

You are a trooper Oscar! As I look back to my set bought from Vi, it was a bargain! Did Vi cast his own?

Jack Textor

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Mar 19, 2017, at 11:49 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



OK, so another update on the cast aluminum hinges. I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I just sent out 3 sets of hinges and hand-delivered a 4th set to a builder a couple of days ago. More good news is that I've started on 4 more sets out of 21 that are on the waiting list, so slowly but surely I'm getting there ;o)

The bad news is that of my remaining stock of rough castings, I have just enough to finish the sets for the people on the waiting list, and not a single set more. With a little luck, I'll have everyone on the list supplied with hinges by summer and will be all out of rough castings to make any more.

Now for more possible good news: I've contacted the person who supplies me with the rough castings and he got right back to me. He's going to see if the foundry can run me off another batch of enough to make another 20-25 sets. Fingers crossed!

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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taildrags



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Jack; when I purchased the parts and tooling from Vi, there were some rough blanks as well as castoffs included in the stuff. The castings that he included look identical to the ones that I'm using, and he gave me the name of the foundry that he used. They are the same castings, presumably from the same alloy although the ones that I tested went to almost 30% more load than Vi's test and never failed to fracture like his did. Either the latest ones are a stronger alloy or maybe Vi didn't bother running his test as carefully as I did mine.

The test article that he sent me a picture of failed at 700 lbs. That means that a single one of his hinges could hold up the entire empty weight of an Air Camper like mine. The hinge pair that I tested went to 900 lbs before I stopped the test and it still had not failed. The hinge base deformed plastically under the load, but nothing fractured. Another 188 lbs of load and that hinge would have been holding up the equivalent of the entire maximum gross weight of my Air Camper (1088 lbs). Let's just say that the cast hinges are pretty strong.


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taildrags



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oops... I just re-read what I wrote and what I should have said was that my hinges "never failed to the point of fracture" like Vi's did.

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taildrags



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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Yet another update on the Vi Kapler-style cast aluminum hinges (since it's soooo quiet on this list!). The foundry that I work with has just run a new batch of castings for me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 sets, but I have not seen them yet and have no idea what the rejection rate is going to be. Even with the anticipated rejection rate, I should be able to get another 25 sets of hinges out of this batch, which should supply builders well past the next presidential election <ha> I currently have enough castings in inventory to fulfill all standing orders. Now to find the time to get them done for all of you...

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Oscar,

What's involved in working the rough castings to finished product?
Is it something I could do with basic shop tools & equipment?
I'm thinking, drill, grinder, etc. Not milling machines or CNC.....
JohnW
On 4 May 2017 at 12:57, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Yet another update on the Vi Kapler-style cast aluminum hinges (since it's soooo quiet on this list!).  The foundry that I work with has just run a new batch of castings for me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 sets, but I have not seen them yet and have no idea what the rejection rate is going to be.  Even with the anticipated rejection rate, I should be able to get another 25 sets of hinges out of this batch, which should supply builders well past the next presidential election   I currently have enough castings in inventory to fulfill all standing orders.  Now to find the time to get them done for all of you...

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

Sorry, I just looked the link you provided to your site.

I would be interested in a set of castings to finish off myself.
Name your price.
Shipping would be to Australia,
PO Box 7278
Cloisters Square PO,
Perth
WA 6850
AUSTRALIA
John W


On 4 May 2017 at 13:21, John Woods <jawesma(at)gmail.com (jawesma(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Oscar,

What's involved in working the rough castings to finished product?
Is it something I could do with basic shop tools & equipment?
I'm thinking, drill, grinder, etc. Not milling machines or CNC.....
JohnW
On 4 May 2017 at 12:57, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Yet another update on the Vi Kapler-style cast aluminum hinges (since it's soooo quiet on this list!).  The foundry that I work with has just run a new batch of castings for me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 sets, but I have not seen them yet and have no idea what the rejection rate is going to be.  Even with the anticipated rejection rate, I should be able to get another 25 sets of hinges out of this batch, which should supply builders well past the next presidential election   I currently have enough castings in inventory to fulfill all standing orders.  Now to find the time to get them done for all of you...

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Ironton MO

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

I was thinking along the lines of the other guys....what about selling rough castings? I was going to try casting some myself, but I would thick my quality would not be as good as commercial foundry.

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TCSHftg13



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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Vi Kapler hinges Reply with quote

I have a set of Oscar's hinges. I am happy with them! They did require a little sprucing up. But i knew that before Oscar sent them to me. It's a small part that needs to be done when building a Pietenpol Air Camper.
Tony
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 5/3/17 11:57 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kapler hinges

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>

Yet another update on the Vi Kapler-style cast aluminum hinges (since it's soooo quiet on this list!). The foundry that I work with has just run a new batch of castings for me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 sets, but I have not seen them yet and have no idea what the rejection rate is going to be. Even with the anticipated rejection rate, I should be able to get another 25 sets of hinges out of this batch, which should supply builders well past the next presidential election I currently have enough castings in inventory to fulfill all standing orders. Now to find the time to get them done for all of you...

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop


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