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Spark Plugs

 
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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:34 am    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
I have used the same spark plugs for over 20 years. near 800 hrs.

Cut a hole in some cardboard, insert the treads, tape the top threads, and spray paint with a high heat rust proof paint.

Electrodes look like footballs. Mag drop when everything is right is still about 50 per side.

A friend got a new set of plugs and 6 of the 8 were over the 5K ohm test. So that is a myth as well.

If they ain't broke don't fix'um.

Bobby

Lyc O-320


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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:44 am    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
Good info - glad to hear it works the way it should!

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jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be a fairly typical experience. 

No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself.

Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monitor logs show that as well.

Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.
According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first.


Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowledge the issues they had.

Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)


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rv10pro(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) was first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ago.  A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process.

Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder.  Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and most importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark.  I like Jim's post.
Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace.  And the harm in testing resistance IS?  Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV
John Cox
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, <jim(at)poogiebearranch.com (jim(at)poogiebearranch.com)> wrote:
[quote]Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth.  It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be a fairly typical experience. 
 
No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself.
 
Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monitor logs show that as well. 
 
Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.   
According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs.  Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators).  Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first.

 
Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems.  Aviation needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowledge the issues they had.
 
Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)
 
 
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jack(at)bedfordlandings.c
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
So how do you do the resistance test?  Is it just using a DC ohm-meter?  What should the resistance be?

Jack Phillips

From: owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lycomingengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 3:13 PM
To: lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Spark Plugs

The Standard of checking plug resistance (After Cleaning and Regapping) was first introduced to me at an IA Conference in Washington State, years ago. A Magneto rebuilder from Seattle set forth the process.


Resistance like plaque in an artery which forces the Heart to work harder. Altitude, Moisture, Condition of the Wires and "YES" the resistance of plugs can lead to a weaker spark at the gap, other paths to ground and most importantly to premature cardiac arrest of the Spark. I like Jim's post.



Bobby's post is something I find all too commonplace. And the harm in testing resistance IS? Love the presentation of contrarian views. YMMV



John Cox

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:44 AM, <jim(at)poogiebearranch.com (jim(at)poogiebearranch.com)> wrote:[quote]
Purchasing 8 brand new Champion spark plugs, and finding that 6 of the 8 failed the resistance test does not mean that resistance testing is a myth. It means that Champion's quality control process failed to identify the bad plugs and prevent them from being sold. Unfortunately, this appears to be a fairly typical experience.



No one can pinpoint when the problems began, but for at least the last 4-5 years, Champion plugs (especially the fine-wire plugs) have been having problems with cracked insulators that cause misfires at higher power settings. This is especially noticeable in turbocharged and/or turbo-normalized airplanes, which typically operate at much higher power levels at higher altitudes, where the misfire becomes especially noticeable. With these defective plugs, lean-of-peak operations are close to impossible, as the misfires cause EGT variations not attributable to the mixture itself.



Those who have full-function digital engine monitors can easily see this in their engine monitor logs. When those misfiring Champion plugs (which invariably fail the resistance test) are replaced with either new "good" Champion plugs, or new Tempest plugs, the misfire goes away, and the engine monitor logs show that as well.



Continental has switched over to Tempest plugs for ALL of their new production and re-manufactured engines. There were three Continental factory employees at the Advanced Pilot Seminar I attended, and they publicly stated (for the record) that the factory made this switch because of the poor QC in the Champion plug manufacturing process that resulted in many "bad" plugs being shipped to them. Several other highly respected engine shops in the Texas / Oklahoma region (including Tornado Alley Turbo / GAMI) have also recommended to their customers that they switch to Tempest fine-wire plugs.


According to multiple publications, Champion themselves have at least tacitly acknowledged the issues, by quietly changing the design of their fine-wire spark plugs to use the same construction technique as the Tempest plugs. Unfortunately, they didn't change the part numbers, or create any other "differentiating" method, so you cannot tell if you got one of the new design plugs, or one of the "old" ones that are prone to multiple failure modes (including cracking of the ceramic insulators). Keep in mind that most of the distributors have a stockpile of the "old" plugs, and normal inventory turnover processes will ensure that the older stock ships first.


Personally, I'm glad Champion has addressed the issue, although I wish they had done so in a public manner, acknowledging the problems. Aviation needs Champion to be successful, but we also need them to "fess up" and acknowledge the issues they had.



Jim Parker

N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot (Turbo-Normalized)




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jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:54 pm    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
Here's an article from Tempest with good information on "The Right Way to Check Spark Plug Resistance": http://tinyurl.com/phqduwf

Jim Parker
N5842N - 78 Commander 114 Hot Shot


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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Spark Plugs Reply with quote
The plugs I have used for over 20 yrs were Champion. The plugs we did the resistance test on were not Champion.

My friend used them anyway and has not had a problem. I agree that over time the resistance in all the components can change due to corrosion, wear, moisture, and other factors.

Annuals should be like going to the dentist. Remove the plaque -)

bobby
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