 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nickc(at)mtaonline.net
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
 |
|
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that one of the company owner would have printed some of the information, but if they have I have never heard a reference to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:52 pm Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low
time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very
well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS... I mentioned on
the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument
panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the
foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: |
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
|
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
racerjerry
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:18 am Post subject: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
The very best thing a new Kolb pilot can do is to GET DUAL INSTRUCTION in a 2-place KOLB. Let me rephrase that - It is the ONLY thing to do!
The sight picture and flight characteristics of any side-by-side 2-place Kolb are nearly the same as a single seat Kolb and VERY different from a Champ.
A while back, we had a very experienced GA pilot stall/mush a perfectly good ultralight clear into the ground on its first flight because of the differences. In this case, it was not a Kolb. The combination of light weight, very draggy airframe and high thrust line of the pusher prop in a Kolb can quickly get you into trouble if you do not know what to expect.
When you get off the throttle, you must be ready to immediately apply forward stick to maintain airspeed. Very unlike a Champ that has the weight and inertia to keep up speed.
Fly 'em to the ground with power not completely off (at least in the beginning) and Kolbs are very safe and an absolute joy to fly. Well, at least they are a joy when the winds are not howling.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Jerry King |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
simple.
Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for
24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the
flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to
rough for me to be comfortable.
My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and
weather lightens up a bit.
I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150
lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
as simple as possible.
The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not. Does
that relieve me of liability? 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS... I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
|
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing. Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.
We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
simple.
Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for
24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the
flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to
rough for me to be comfortable.
My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and
weather lightens up a bit.
I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150
lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
as simple as possible.
The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not. Does
that relieve me of liability?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: | After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <[url=mailto:Herbgh(at)nctc.com]Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)[/url]>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS... I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <[url=mailto:victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net]victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)[/url]>
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <[url=mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net]nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)[/url]> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
|
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Just to add to the good advice given you by Rick, I make it a practice when flying a strange airplane, to get up about a 1000 feet and do a stall, checking where it stalls on the ASI. That will give you the knowledge that you will need to safely get it back on the ground again. It doesn't matter whether the ASI is correct or not, what you need is to know is how much faster you need it to read to keep from stalling.
I once tested a guy's Firestar that had put every bell and whistle on that he could think of. It was at close to max gross with me as pilot. I carefully flew it off the ground and up to 1000 feet agl. Wide open throttle the ASI showed 60 MPH. I throttled back and it stalled at 56 MPH. Needless to say I did a wheel landing when I got it on the ground.
Larry
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing. Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.
We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:58 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Cross check the ASI and keep it above stall speed. No stall. Pretty
simple.
Forget the ASI, fall below stall speed and stall. Can be fatal.
I started flying Kolbs in 1984. I still keep a close cross check on my
airspeed on approach to nearly touchdown.
Don't ask me what the V speeds are on my MKIII, which I have been flying for
24 years. It takes off when it is ready to fly, climbs out about 60 mph,
shoot my approaches about 50 mph. I try not to fly beyond 100 and drop the
flaps above 70. Maneuver speed is when I slow down because it is getting to
rough for me to be comfortable.
My MKIII stalls at 38 to 40 clean, 35 with half flaps (20 degrees), and
about 32 with full flaps (40 degrees). I think these will be a few mph
slower when I get John Gilpin's VGs installed, hopefully, when the wind and
weather lightens up a bit.
I frequently check stall speeds to keep me up to date, especially when I
have a passenger, which I don't fly very often, and when I take off with 150
lbs of fuel and 100 lbs of gear on board.
Sorry I am not more help. I try to keep my Kolb and my approach to fly it
as simple as possible.
The above works for me. I don't know if it will work for you or not. Does
that relieve me of liability?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
do not archive |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Allow me to add to Rick's comments. Although the ASI may not be calibrated correctly, huge error between indicated and true airspeed, as long as it is operational and you have checked, it will indicate stall speed.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 10:57 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
Be aware that our airplanes are all different. They are not a identically built Cessna or Piper and that is mostly a good thing. Indicated air speeds are always inaccurate to some extent. Some more than others. Your static source is the most common point of inaccuracy. Adding to that our planes may stall, have a flap failure and/or structural failure at different actual air speeds.
We have seen posts that talk about wildly inaccurate airspeed readings. Some have reported airspeeds that do not change in flight. My plane showed inaccurate air speeds by more than 15 MPH low for first few flights, right when I needed it most. Yes it was a static source issue.
Bottom line don't fly your new plane by the numbers given by anyone. Use the V numbers as only a basic guide. You are going to be a test pilot. Listen to wind sounds. Watch the ASI on takeoff roll. Note the indicated air speed when the plane takes flight and what it indicates in different attitudes especially when it stalls.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:43 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the air.
If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: |
After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS... I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
-- “Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
|
| Quote: | | -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. |
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
"Scared the crap out of me just
watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the
air. If I wanted to fly like that I
would have a Citabria, not a Firefly."
Are we all talking about the traditional "wingover" maneuver that the guy did in the video at the 3:04 mark and 3:58 mark? Or is there some sort of inverted flat spin and Lomcevak he did that I didn't see when watching the video?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/3/16, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> wrote:
Subject: RE: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016, 11:43 AM
#yiv4032260202
#yiv4032260202 --
_filtered #yiv4032260202 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv4032260202 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11
6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv4032260202 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2
11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv4032260202 {font-family:Georgia;panose-1:2 4
5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}
#yiv4032260202
#yiv4032260202 p.yiv4032260202MsoNormal, #yiv4032260202
li.yiv4032260202MsoNormal, #yiv4032260202
div.yiv4032260202MsoNormal
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}
#yiv4032260202 h1
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;color:black;}
#yiv4032260202 a:link, #yiv4032260202
span.yiv4032260202MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv4032260202 a:visited, #yiv4032260202
span.yiv4032260202MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv4032260202 pre
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;}
#yiv4032260202 span.yiv4032260202hoenzb
{}
#yiv4032260202 span.yiv4032260202Heading1Char
{color:#365F91;font-weight:bold;}
#yiv4032260202 span.yiv4032260202HTMLPreformattedChar
{color:black;}
#yiv4032260202 span.yiv4032260202EmailStyle21
{color:#1F497D;}
#yiv4032260202 .yiv4032260202MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;}
_filtered #yiv4032260202 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
#yiv4032260202 div.yiv4032260202WordSection1
{}
#yiv4032260202 Scared the crap out of me just
watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the
air. If I wanted to fly like that I
would have a Citabria, not a Firefly. Stuart From:
owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03,
2016 11:05 AM
To:
kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re:
How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb
flying? Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment
on You tube at the link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM,
Richard Girard wrote:After my experience with the
"Plane from Hell", I think a additional project
should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are
some real morons out there when it comes to building and
absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can
have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is
poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual
parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in
real trouble.
Rick
Girard On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04
AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
wrote:--> Kolb-List
message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
When I sold the Firefly last
month...I was naturally worried about a low time
pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing
very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a
BRS... I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup
to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been
dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy
stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016
12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:--> Kolb-List message
posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Great idea on the piloting
tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips
from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new
Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I
believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly
manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals
professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that
mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad
to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory
is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not
agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com
- safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit
entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
wrote:
Subject:
How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Kolbers,
Ever year
we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group.
I think it
would be a good thing if those
of you with Kolb flying
experience could
create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best
think to do is to
get more time in a
Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know
that there will
be differences in every
Kolb built and each model, but what
are
the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed
some of the
information, but if they have
I have never heard a reference
to it.
What do you think?
Thanks as always, I
would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST
WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature
text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light
and turn left.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
“Blessed are the cracked, for
they shall let in the light.” Groucho
Marx
-- Signature text; Fort
Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn
left.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
I was relieved to learn that the pilot had 40+ years in Kolbs and ga planes... When I first believed it was the low time owner...I thought that he was going to be safe in this little bird...flew confidently...though putting the Fly through more paces in one flight than I have in years...
They are strong....no doubt... I suspect that Dennis and John have flown some interesting maneuvers... Not sure if in a Fly however?? Herb
On 05/03/2016 01:43 PM, Stuart Harner wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Scared the crap out of me just watching it. Of course I am a known chicken in the air.
If I wanted to fly like that I would have a Citabria, not a Firefly.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 11:05 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
Rick
My day is ruined....check the latest comment on You tube at the link below!!! I am sick!!! Herb
On 05/03/2016 10:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: |
After my experience with the "Plane from Hell", I think a additional project should be a "how to inspect a Kolb (model). There are some real morons out there when it comes to building and absolutely unscrupulous when it comes to selling. You can have all the flying manuals you want but if the plane is poorly built it probably won't fly within the manual parameters and a pilot with little skill can find himself in real trouble.
Rick Girard
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
When I sold the Firefly last month...I was naturally worried about a low time pilot....but this video seems to indicate that he is doing very well...guide or no...I notice he installed a BRS... I mentioned on the comments that it was a Herbup to not have painted the instrument panel...must have been dozing that day?? Not sure what happened to the foam joy stick grip?? Herb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmmXDbhcTwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWZ4smwWOg
On 05/03/2016 12:49 AM, Bill Berle wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <[url=mailto:victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net]victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)[/url]>
Great idea on the piloting tips, so long as you can protect the authors of those tips from liability or blame when the s**t hits the fan.
On a similar note, as a new Kolb builder but an experienced "airplane guy", I believe there is also a strong need for an improved assembly manual. I have written assembly and construction manuals professionally, and I have sent the factory an e-mail that mentioned this and offered my services. I would be very glad to participate in the assembly manual rewrite if the factory is interested. But it is their decision, and they may not agree that there is a need for a better manual..
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/2/16, Nick Cassara <[url=mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net]nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)[/url]> wrote:
Subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, May 2, 2016, 9:26 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)>
Kolbers,
Ever year we have several “members” finish their
projects, or buy a Kolb and joint our group. I think it
would be a good thing if those of you with Kolb flying
experience could create a “Kolb Flying Tips “ document
of some sort. I hope to joint the group of completed
projects this summer, and I know the best think to do is to
get more time in a Champ, but I know, that flying my Kolb
will be different than flying the Champ. So how about a
do’s and don’t of fly the Kolb. I know that there will
be differences in every Kolb built and each model, but what
are the average V speeds for each model? I would think that
one of the company owner would have printed some of the
information, but if they have I have never heard a reference
to it. What do you think?
Thanks as always, I would have never gotten this far without
the support and knowledge of this group!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
PAAQ
Kolbra Kit #1
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
-- “Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.” Groucho Marx
|
| Quote: | | -- Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left. |
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: How about a new Pilot Guide to Kolb flying? |
|
|
The part where the earth was spinning under a wing tip. Wingover I guess.
Too close to inverted for my taste. One little bump in the air and you are upside down!
Used to do that kind of thing in heavier aircraft, but not in my 2-stroke powered leaf.
The accelerated stall got my attention too. Of course I have never liked them in any aircraft. Always scared me, never got used to doing that.
Stuart
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
