Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Silent-Hektik Regulator

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Okay, so I've decided I will take Bob's advice and not use the Ducati regulator and instead use the Silent-Hektik. I have a German connection that should be able to get one for me.

There are (at least) two questions that I need answered to complete my wiring diagram for starting/charging/fuel pumps. 
1. Does the Silent-Hektik need to be disconnected from the battery when the engine is not running, like the Ducati does (to keep from running down the battery).
2. Is there a prohibition (again, like the Ducati) against disconnecting the sensing wire from the bus while the engine is running?
I have not been able to find any specific information on this regulator, other than its amp rating and its dimensions. Any help would be appreciated.
Ken Ryan


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Here is a link for the Silent-Hektik wiring diagram:
http://www.silent-hektik.de/E_R4112.pdf
I assume that the "Kondens" is a condenser, aka capacitor; and that the "anlasser" is the starter.
1. Even though the diagram shows the regulator connected directly to the battery, I would connect it to the load side of the battery contactor instead. The electrons will not know the difference unless the master switch is shut off.
2. Even though the Rotax manual warns against disconnecting the sensing wire from the bus while the engine is running, that precaution is highly debatable.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Joe! I wish these companies would pay a little money to a professional translator. Even Rotax, with all the money they must be making, cannot break loose with enough cash to pay a professional translator. So struggling through the language barrier, I find myself wondering what in the world this means:

"A safety fuse between alternator-regulator and battery plus leads to a total failure in the case of insulate contact."
Are they simply stating the obvious, that if the fuse blows you will lose the generator current? Or are they cautioning against putting a fuse in the battery plus lead because it could lead to total failure of the regulator? No fuses or breakers are shown in their drawing.
With regards to Rotax's advice not to disconnect the sensing wire when the engine is running, I "think" these instructions state the same thing:
"only connect or disconnect the cable from the ignitions system when the ignition system is turned off."
Do you agree that is what the above sentence is saying?
They also say "operating without battery or without cooling causes failure." Really? The Ducati regulator does not require a battery.
Then, specific to Rotax 912 installation they say "the max length of the plus and minus cables is 50cm (20 inches) with NO (emphasis is theirs) fuses, switches or shunts."
Another point of interest is that only the R wire goes to the capacitor. Every Rotax diagram that I have seen has at least the R and B+ going to the capacitor. Most also use the capacitor as a junction for R B+ and C.
Any help figuring out exactly how to incorporate this regulator will be appreciated. FYI I have abandoned the idea of running the main pump directly off the regulator. The road I am following now is a variation on Bob's Z-13/8, Z-16, Rotax installation diagram, and all the good ideas I have gotten from this list. Basically, the 40 amp alternator will be primary and the 20 amp generator will be auxiliary, as in Z-13/8. I have it drawn out in rough and I think it works, but this new regulator info has me scratching my head, and before I post my drawing for review I need to actually understand the installation requirements for the Silent-Hektik.
Ken
On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 5:56 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is a link for the Silent-Hektik wiring diagram:
http://www.silent-hektik.de/E_R4112.pdf
I assume that the "Kondens" is a condenser, aka capacitor; and that the "anlasser" is the starter.
1.  Even though the diagram shows the regulator connected directly to the battery, I would connect it to the load side of the battery contactor instead.  The electrons will not know the difference unless the master switch is shut off.
2. Even though the Rotax manual warns against disconnecting the sensing wire from the bus while the engine is running, that precaution is highly debatable.

--------
Joe Gores




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458063#458063







===========
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========





- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Le 11/07/2016 à 17:45, Ken Ryan a écrit :

Quote:
 The Ducati regulator does not require a battery.

Ken and all,

It's been a long time since I designed our project circuits, but I had the impression thant this regulator actually does need a battery to operate.
Back in 2003 when we conducted multiple tests with the Ducati regulator, we found that it needs some voltage to come to life, so we concluded that it was safer not to operate our electrically dependent aircraft without a correctly charged set of batteries.
At the time we kept this 'List updated with our findings.

Concerning the Silent Hektik, it seems it can be a direct swap with the Rotax/Ducati altenator, and can be wired liked suggested on fig Z16.

FWIW
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

As an experiment, I connected a wire from the load side of the battery contactor to terminal "C" of the Ducati regulator. I went flying. At cruise speed, I turned off the master switch which disconnected the battery from the electrical system. As expected, nothing changed. Everything electrical kept right on working. Shutting off the master switch had no affect, except for an intermittent high voltage alarm. When the alarm sounded on the D-180, I was reluctant to increase the RPM, not wanting to destroy any avionics. Back on the ground, I downloaded the Dynon D-180 data to my computer to analyze. The maximum voltage of 14.7 occurred at about 5200 RPM. The voltage fluctuated between 13.25 and 14.7
So once enabled, the Ducati regulator will remain enabled by its own output voltage. The Ducati does not need a battery to continue operating. However, a connected battery will have a stabilizing affect on system voltage. Without a battery, the system voltage varied plus or minus 3/4 of a volt or 1.5 volts total.
Based on this experiment, the Rotax charging system needs a battery for stability.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Quote:
Based on this experiment, the Rotax charging system needs a battery for stability.

Good data! Thanks for sharing


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

Dan Horton conducted an experiment similar to mine above except that he shut off the avionics first. His alternator is a Plane Power 60A. With the battery disconnected from the aircraft electrical system, the voltage varied between 13 and 16 volts (as far as he could tell without data logging instruments). So it appears that 3-phase common alternators require a battery to stabilize voltage just like permanent-magnet single-phase alternators do.
You can read his post here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1200109#post1200109


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject: Silent-Hektik Regulator Reply with quote

At 08:05 PM 8/29/2017, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>

Dan Horton conducted an experiment similar to mine above except that he shut off the avionics first. His alternator is a Plane Power 60A. With the battery disconnected from the aircraft electrical system, the voltage varied between 13 and 16 volts (as far as he could tell without data logging instruments). So it appears that 3-phase common alternators require a battery to stabilize voltage just like permanent-magnet single-phase alternators do.
You can read his post here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1200109#post1200109


I cruised through the thread and captured it.
Lots of good nuggets of info but sprinkled with
assertions with shaky or no foundation.

Haven't got time to sift the sands now
but I will . . .



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group