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Engine rubber mounts
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Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Bonjour et merci, Remi.



So I'm probably going to to the same as you - replacing the faulty ones with the old "good" ones and send the new ones to Europa. While we're at it, how many hours did the replacement take you and how did you hoist the engine? Anything to take special care of? I hope that all wires and cables can stay in place.



When I changed the rubbermounts the last time I had to install a new engine anyway, so accessibility wasn't an issue back then.



Salut

Roland

PH-ZTI 

XS TG 914

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:17 am Post subject: Engine rubber mounts

Hello,

The easiest way without removing or hoisting the engine is to remove the bolts of one vertical pair of mounts and "swing" the engine out like on a hinge, giving just sufficient room to take out and replace the rubber mounts on the opposite side. Then reinstall and do the other side.

I have a classic installation which allows a bit of sideways movement.

Christoph Both

Europa #223

Wolfville Canada



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 17, 2016, at 07:16, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de> wrote:

 

 

 

 Bonjour et merci, Remi.

 

 So I'm probably going to to the same as you - replacing the faulty ones with the old "good" ones and send the new ones to Europa. While we're at it, how many hours did the replacement take you and how did you hoist the engine? Anything to take special care of? I hope that all wires and cables can stay in place.

 

 When I changed the rubbermounts the last time I had to install a new engine anyway, so accessibility wasn't an issue back then.

 

 Salut

 Roland

 PH-ZTI 

 XS TG 914

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464044#464044

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Hi Christoph and thanks for the tip - sounds not that difficult, but accessibility in front of the firewall is not great anyway. I'm confident that I can make it within a few hours with the help of my mechanic.

GrÃ¼sse aus Deutschland 

Roland

PH-ZTI 

XS TG 914

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Roland and Christoph,

When I did that work, I first tried to remove the two upper bolts while hoisting the engine to remove most of the load. That did not work as the bolts were sticking to the rubber material. So I decided to proceed as for Mod 72, i.e. moving forward the engine/prop/cooling tunnel. You really need to borrow an hydraulic crane to do that easily. Depending on your installation you may need to disconnect some wiring or/and hoses. I do not know how many hours of labor I spent, but that was probably around 15 hours. Not funny!

Remi

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

One more question: last time when we installed the rubber mounts, we managed to compress not only the MT04's but also the MT03 steel-spacers with which to me seemed like a reasonable torque, so that I also had to order new MT03's from Europa.



Although the MT04 should be fully compressed on the MT03 spacers I'd like to avoid to again damage the MT03's by overtorquing for obvious reasons.



Any suggestions as to how to make it right? The installation manual only states "tightened fully":



Note:

The 4 AN5-41 mounting bolts must be tightened fully to compress the rubber anti-vibration

mounts (MT04) onto the steel spacers (MT03).



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Engine rubber mounts

On 2016-12-17, at 21:13, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   One more question: last time when we installed the rubber mounts, we managed to compress not only the MT04's but also the MT03 steel-spacers with which to me seemed like a reasonable torque, so that I also had to order new MT03's from Europa.

 

 Although the MT04 should be fully compressed on the MT03 spacers I'd like to avoid to again damage the MT03's by overtorquing for obvious reasons.

 

 Any suggestions as to how to make it right? The installation manual only states "tightened fullyâ€:


	


Roland - I fitted the rubber mounts not very long ago. Although some effort was required to compress the rubbers, I found that it was relatively easy to feel when the MT02 cup washers came into contact with both ends of the MT03 spacers - there was a distinctly more solid resistance to further tightening.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Thank you, Rowland. The problem might have been, that we were two (one turning on the one side and one securing on the other side) and so maybe lacking that feeling for the distinctive resistance you've described. 



OTOH I wasn't aware, that it's at all possible to deform the MT03 "so easily".



Regards

Roland (without the "w" 

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:07 am Post subject: Engine rubber mounts

Roland, 



The purpose of the sleeve is to act as a spacer so that the rubbers are compressed to the correct amount and no more. 



There is no need for the nuts to be torqued as such in this application. 



Once the nut starts to lock up because of the spacer taking the load, turn the nut only enough then to align the first castellation for the split pin. In fact, depending on how it feels, it might be best to back off the nut to the first available castellation. 



Regards

Kingsley in Oz. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 18 Dec. 2016, at 7:13 am, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de> wrote:

 

 

 

 One more question: last time when we installed the rubber mounts, we managed to compress not only the MT04's but also the MT03 steel-spacers with which to me seemed like a reasonable torque, so that I also had to order new MT03's from Europa.

 

 Although the MT04 should be fully compressed on the MT03 spacers I'd like to avoid to again damage the MT03's by overtorquing for obvious reasons.

 

 Any suggestions as to how to make it right? The installation manual only states "tightened fully":

 

 Note:

 The 4 AN5-41 mounting bolts must be tightened fully to compress the rubber anti-vibration

 mounts (MT04) onto the steel spacers (MT03).

 

 Regards

 Roland

 PH-ZTI

 XS TG 914

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464062#464062

tennant

Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Hi Roland,



I have got an engine lift if you need to borrow one.



Barry

_________________
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Kingsley, yes - good advise. Seems like I'll have to be more careful with my power 



Barry, thanks for your offer, but my mechanic in Venlo also has a lift. I guess that Christoph made a good suggestion to change one vertical pair first, provided that one gets enough movement and space to insert the MT04's on the opposite side. However it should be a good idea to secure the engine with a lift.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI 

XS TG 914

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:49 am Post subject: Engine rubber mounts

Kingsley is right. I did some research many years ago, I found that the Europa supplied rubbers were much harder than the Rotax supplied ones (I was trying to reduce engine noise levels). Apparently Europa were supplied by a differnet manufacturer and hardness was not

the same. 



I used the softerones eventually and adjusted the engine alignment by using washers between the engine mount and the fuselage frame. I remember that longer bolts were needed.

Graham

 

    On Sunday, 18 December 2016, 9:08, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au> wrote:



  



 --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>



Roland, 



The purpose of the sleeve is to act as a spacer so that the rubbers are compressed to the correct amount and no more. 



There is no need for the nuts to be torqued as such in this application. 



Once the nut starts to lock up because of the spacer taking the load, turn the nut only enough then to align the first castellation for the split pin. In fact, depending on how it feels, it might be best to back off the nut to the first available castellation. 



Regards

Kingsley in Oz. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 18 Dec. 2016, at 7:13 am, Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)> wrote:

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>

 

 One more question: last time when we installed the rubber mounts, we managed to compress not only the MT04's but also the MT03 steel-spacers with which to me seemed like a reasonable torque, so that I also had to order new MT03's from Europa.

 

 Although the MT04 should be fully compressed on the MT03 spacers I'd like to avoid to again damage the MT03's by overtorquing for obvious reasons.

 

 Any suggestions as to how to make it right? The installation manual only states "tightened fully":

 

 Note:

 The 4 AN5-41 mounting bolts must be tightened fully to compress the rubber anti-vibration

 mounts (MT04) onto the steel spacers (MT03).

 

 Regards

 Roland

 PH-ZTI

 XS TG 914

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464062#464062

 

 

 

 http://wwwp;                   -Matt Draropa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> http://foru              - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI --> http://wiki                    &nbsptronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Add me to this list.... Fitted new Europa-supplied MT4's earlier this year; my spinner is now 5-10mm lower.



Will speak to Karen....

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Hello all,



today I fitted the new (harder) rubber mounts, which were supplied by my mechanic in Venlo/Netherlands. The rubbers which were delivered by Europa Aircraft back in 2012/2013 were definitely MUCH too soft, as Remi already discovered. By comparing the two different types it should have been obvious for us when we installed them. OTOH - why checking genuine spare parts?



My mechanic says, that the rubbers are standard size for many Rotax-powered aircraft and that there are just two different types of which the Europa obviously needs the harder ones.



The rubbers can be delivered by http://www.spreuwenberg.nl/contact.htm , if anyone is interested. He has several sets in stock.



Oh, and a happy new year to you all!



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

I'm rather disappointed that 2 messages left on the Europa answerphone remain without response. When buying OE parts from the manufacturer, removing the engine to install them and then finding out they're not the right parts is not really cricket. It would seem appropriate that they supply the correct parts and cover the installation cost.

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

If Europa Aircraft had to cover the Installation costs for all concerned, they'd be probably finished. But I agree, that they should at least investigate and sort the annoying issue, apologize for the immense hassle for the owners and of course deliver the correct parts free of any charge.

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

I take your point, but find it hard to imagine another scenario where OE parts, that look identical to the correct part, are incorrectly supplied and the cost of the error is borne by the purchaser. The parts are not cheap, and available at far lower cost elsewhere, yet I always buy spares from Europa Aircraft to a: support the manufacturer and b: ensure I get exactly the correct part. I'm not the sort of person that expects compensation for downtime and that sort of carp, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to cover my engineers actual bill for replacing incorrectly supplied parts. As it stands, they don't even return calls.

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 635

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

We need to replace the mounts on our XS soon.  Has Europa solved the problem of too soft mounts?  Weâ€™ll certainly ask Karen when we order the replacements.



Jim & Heather

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: Engine rubber mounts

Jim, 

I’ve not had a problem with their current rubber iso mounts.  It has been a couple years.  Main problem is the mounts may have been on the shelf quite some time and I found some that were brittle.  Karen’s price was quite reasonable though  an MT04 was about $10 each.  Normally about $100 bill for parts and shipping back then so a bit more now... 

  

Aircraft Spruce had the equivalent Lord Mount Rubber Cups from the Cessna 150 which have been used by others in the past:  LORD ENGINE MOUNT # J-3608-1 for about $20 a pair so you needed 4 pair plus shipping.   

Problem is which ones were hard and which ones were soft.  Folks complained so I just did the Europa ones. 

  

Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net>

 Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 7:30:57 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts  

 

 

  --> Europa-List message posted by: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>

 

 We need to replace the mounts on our XS soon.  Has Europa solved the problem of too soft mounts?  Weâ€™ll certainly ask Karen when we order the replacements.

 

 Jim & Heather

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D482480%23482480&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C10c47b7c8569451482aa08d60435697a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636701024773280117&amp;sdata=o2Zjj3xw0rNBS%2B%2Fdtc8A96b0A3thpSEXz3JCW25TLT4%3D&amp;reserved=0

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

Hi Jim,

In spite of my repeated requests, I never got any explanation from Europa Aircraft on how batches of too soft rubber mounts found their way to customers and what corrective action they take too avoid this sort of problem in the future. This is a major quality issue and their lack of response is very disappointing!

Remi

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 384
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Engine rubber mounts

The "hinge" method worked well for me, undoing two vertically aligned mounts at a time. Depending on your installation, you might need to disconnect some items, but there's no need to support the engine with a hoist while you're doing it.



I agree that while it might be expected of a large company to pay for the unnecessary extra expense incurred due to being sent the wrong items, I don't believe we should risk the continued existence of Europa by insisting that they should foot the bill.

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