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Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause

 
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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

Some of you probably saw the Probable Cause report that was recently published by the NTSB on the 5-Person, middle of the night, without a certificated pilot, RV-10 crash that occurred in Georgia.

The PC report was pretty much what we all expected.  The photo of the airframe showed the massive impact and airframe destruction that was reported by the law enforcement on the ground.  This is the first time I've seen a photo of it as I don't believe the media was allowed back there.
Anyway, I dug into the docket a bit more and found an interesting study that I hadn't seen performed inside other NTSB reports; a Personal Electronic Devices Report.  The level of damage to the phones in this report is quite revealing.  However I found it interesting that the NTSB is now utilizing cell phone data.  We've always known it was possible, but I hadn't seen them do it yet in an investigation.  That could potentially open up a can of worms.  Perhaps PED's in the off position aren't a bad thing.  
Just thought it was interesting to see.
Full Docket is here....

Phil


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jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

Do to the CG being so grossly tailward, is it possible that was causing all the whifferdills? Seriously NOT being able to control the plane due to the aft CG? Just wondering!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Some of you probably saw the Probable Cause report that was recently published by the NTSB on the 5-Person, middle of the night, without a certificated pilot, RV-10 crash that occurred in Georgia.

The PC report was pretty much what we all expected. The photo of the airframeshowed the massive impact and airframe destruction that was reported by the law enforcement on the ground. This is the first time I've seen a photo of it as I don't believe the media was allowed back there.


Anyway, I dug into the docket a bit more and found an interesting study that I hadn't seen performed inside other NTSB reports; a Personal Electronic Devices Report. The level of damage to the phones in this report is quite revealing. However I found it interesting that the NTSB is now utilizing cell phone data. We've always known it was possible, but I hadn't seen them do it yet in an investigation. That could potentially open up a can of worms. Perhaps PED's in the off position aren't a bad thing.


Just thought it was interesting to see.


Full Docket is here....



Phil






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jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

The interesting part to me was that the crash was so violent that it ripped all the accessories off the engine. You know the mags, alternator, etc. THAT'S a bad crash!
Kind of like a motorcycle crash where the rider loses his boots. You know it's gonna be bad!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Some of you probably saw the Probable Cause report that was recently published by the NTSB on the 5-Person, middle of the night, without a certificated pilot, RV-10 crash that occurred in Georgia.

The PC report was pretty much what we all expected. The photo of the airframeshowed the massive impact and airframe destruction that was reported by the law enforcement on the ground. This is the first time I've seen a photo of it as I don't believe the media was allowed back there.


Anyway, I dug into the docket a bit more and found an interesting study that I hadn't seen performed inside other NTSB reports; a Personal Electronic Devices Report. The level of damage to the phones in this report is quite revealing. However I found it interesting that the NTSB is now utilizing cell phone data. We've always known it was possible, but I hadn't seen them do it yet in an investigation. That could potentially open up a can of worms. Perhaps PED's in the off position aren't a bad thing.


Just thought it was interesting to see.


Full Docket is here....



Phil






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rv10flyer(at)live.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

Not certain but appears he was pulling negative Gs hence the altitude changes, aft CG probably caused stall and plunge.



On Feb 10, 2017, at 8:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Do to the CG being so grossly tailward, is it possible that was causing all the whifferdills? Seriously NOT being able to control the plane due to the aft CG? Just wondering!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Some of you probably saw the Probable Cause report that was recently published by the NTSB on the 5-Person, middle of the night, without a certificated pilot, RV-10 crash that occurred in Georgia.

The PC report was pretty much what we all expected. The photo of the airframeshowed the massive impact and airframe destruction that was reported by the law enforcement on the ground. This is the first time I've seen a photo of it as I don't believe the media was allowed back there.


Anyway, I dug into the docket a bit more and found an interesting study that I hadn't seen performed inside other NTSB reports; a Personal Electronic Devices Report. The level of damage to the phones in this report is quite revealing. However I found it interesting that the NTSB is now utilizing cell phone data. We've always known it was possible, but I hadn't seen them do it yet in an investigation. That could potentially open up a can of worms. Perhaps PED's in the off position aren't a bad thing.


Just thought it was interesting to see.


Full Docket is here....



Phil







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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

Once we're all brought to heel with ADS-B out, it's unlikely that PFD data will offer the feds anything further of significance with which to hang one out to dry.  Isn't that pretty much the way it is?

I, too, was shocked at the mutilation of the phones caused by this straight-in, smoking-hole impact.  Then I read where the toxicology report was essentially blank.  It's a bad wreck when there isn't enough of you left, absent a post-impact fire, to send for a tox screen.  
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 12:53 AM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Not certain but appears he was pulling negative Gs hence the altitude changes, aft CG probably caused stall and plunge.



On Feb 10, 2017, at 8:10 PM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Do to the CG being so grossly tailward, is it possible that was causing all the whifferdills?  Seriously NOT being able to control the plane due to the aft CG? Just wondering!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2017, at 9:18 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
Some of you probably saw the Probable Cause report that was recently published by the NTSB on the 5-Person, middle of the night, without a certificated pilot, RV-10 crash that occurred in Georgia.

The PC report was pretty much what we all expected.  The photo of the airframe showed the massive impact and airframe destruction that was reported by the law enforcement on the ground.  This is the first time I've seen a photo of it as I don't believe the media was allowed back there.


Anyway, I dug into the docket a bit more and found an interesting study that I hadn't seen performed inside other NTSB reports; a Personal Electronic Devices Report.  The level of damage to the phones in this report is quite revealing.  However I found it interesting that the NTSB is now utilizing cell phone data.  We've always known it was possible, but I hadn't seen them do it yet in an investigation.  That could potentially open up a can of worms.  Perhaps PED's in the off position aren't a bad thing.  


Just thought it was interesting to see.


Full Docket is here....



Phil








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rv10flyer



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Georgia: 5 Person RV-10 Probable Cause Reply with quote

I fly and land near my aft CG limit all the time. It is sensitive, but easily controllable, even at night...IF you are sober.

Their W&B gross wt calculation was 24 lbs under due to them figuring full tanks at 56 instead of 60 gallons. Not that it would have changed the outcome.

The fuselage and engine are upside down, note oil cooler and step. Not much else recognizable.

3 DUI's and those 4 young people trusted him with their lives. Wow.


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