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Overhaul - New

 
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Jim Combs



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Lexington, Ky

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Questions for the group:
I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:
(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)
(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)
(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???
(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.
Any comments on any specific option?
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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gengrumpy



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 108
Location: Tullahoma, TN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Jim,

I hope that you follow Mike Busch on engine care and maintenance.

The 2000 point is n/a if you do the things that he recommends, and do the overhaul based “on condition”.

Google him up and read his articles on TBO overhauls, care and routine maintenance.

grumpy

Quote:
On Mar 17, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> wrote:


Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1032
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Depends on the availability of quality overhaulers within reasonable distance.

Sure, you can do it yourself. There are a lot of pitfalls. Lycoming doesn't make all the information available in one place.

While they have done a little updating to the overhaul manual, there are still 1000+ service bulletins that you have to see if they apply.

There have been a lot of parts changes over the years to extend TBO, etc.

I've done a few engines, partly due to economic reasons at the time.

If you supply the core engine, you should be able to get a quality overhaul for well under $40K.

You can also look at Van Bortel and a couple others that offer exchange engines for a claimed $300 over invoice.
http://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/engines.asp?searchParm=IO-540-D4A5&catID=33

That gets you a factory overhauled engine for $37K

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 6:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Questions for the group:
I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:
(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)
(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)
(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???
(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.
Any comments on any specific option?
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Faced with needing an IO540, I went with BPE. Too many souls on board for me to do the rebuild (like I did on the engine for my RV-6). With a good core, your rebuild price should be in the low '30's. You could do it for <$20k if you did it yourself.

Another option would be to do the legwork yourself and have a shop or experienced A&P help with the assembly process.

Some of the dilemma goes back to "How good do you think your core is" and "How much do you think Lycoming's price reductions will reduce rebuild costs?".

Quote:
On Mar 17, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> wrote:


Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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rv10flyer(at)live.com
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

If it was me
(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4)

Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Overhaul - New


Questions for the group:



I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:



(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)



(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)



(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???



(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.



Any comments on any specific option?



Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Jim Combs



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Lexington, Ky

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Ok so stupid question:  What makes the engine need to be overhauled?  I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change.  Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues? 

Never been down this road before.
Jim C 
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:03 AM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
Quote:

If it was me
(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4)
 
Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done
 
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Overhaul - New
 
 
Questions for the group:

 

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

 

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

 

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

 

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

 

(4) Overhaul it myself.  I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

 

Any comments on any specific option?

 

Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period





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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

As EAA members we have various webinars, one happens to be exactly what you are asking 😉
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1429764450001
Pascal

From: Jim Combs (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:34 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Overhaul - New


Ok so stupid question: What makes the engine need to be overhauled? I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change. Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues?


Never been down this road before.



Jim C


On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:03 AM, P Reid <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
Quote:

If it was me
(5) fly the engine until it needs to be overhauled than (4)

Mike Busch is a big advocate that engines can go into 3000+ hours without an issue. If flown often- as you have done

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 6:56 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RV10-List: Overhaul - New


Questions for the group:



I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:



(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)



(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)



(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???



(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.



Any comments on any specific option?



Thanks, Jim Combs

N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period









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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 749
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Jim Combs wrote:
Ok so stupid question:  What makes the engine need to be overhauled?  I do 50 hour oil changes with oil analysis on each change.  Is it a change in oil analysis showing some sort of abnormal wear and / or cylinder issues? 



It really is a judgement call. Sometimes compressions will get poor, sometimes oil consumption will go up. Fortunately it is rare to have a catastrophic failure, but the odds probably increase a bit as you go further and further past TBO.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Usually it's exactly what Bob mentions below. Many of the 'other' parts are
just IRAN (Inspect/Repair/as necessary) during an overhaul anyway. Usually
the crank/cam/case/accessory gears, etc.. all get re-used themselves. Same
with pushrods, conrods, tappets, plungers, etc..

Engines that are often flown frequently outlast engines that sit (especially
on the top end).

Cheers,
Stein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

I've never been down that road either but I intend to follow Busch's
advice and consider 2000 hours just a milestone.

Given that you've flown regularly and probably put most/all the hours on
it personally, you would seem to be a prime candidate for taking an
on-condition approach.

Re a DIY overhaul: I attended Lycoming engine school, both classes,
which include an disassembly/assembly hands-on lab . On one hand, I
know I could do a decent job given patience and time. On the other I've
gained great respect for those individuals that DIY. It's no where near
the size and scope of kit building but there's less room for mistakes
and carelessness. The Lycoming class gave me the confidence for self
maintenance and management. If I were to do a DIY, the class would be a
prerequisite but I'm not going down that path. I recommend that class
for owner/self maintainers and DIY wannabes.

Whoever said, "the information required for a Lycoming overhaul is not
all in one place" knows their stuff, amen.

Bill "I'm planning on getting well past 2,000 hours BO" Watson

On 3/17/2017 10:00 AM, John Miller wrote:
Quote:


Jim,

I hope that you follow Mike Busch on engine care and maintenance.

The 2000 point is n/a if you do the things that he recommends, and do the overhaul based “on condition”.

Google him up and read his articles on TBO overhauls, care and routine maintenance.

grumpy


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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.
However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it. If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.
IMHO!
LINN


Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas.
-------- Original message --------
From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com>
Date: 03/17/2017 9:55 AM (GMT-05:00)
To rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject RV10-List: Overhaul - New

Questions for the group:
I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:
(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)
(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)
(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???
(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.
Any comments on any specific option?
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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jerry_stark(at)prodigy.ne
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

FYI:

If you really need to rebuild it I would consider talking with Barret In Tulsa. Not that much higher cost but they do a better balance, in my opinion, check with them. Also they do work for a few aerobatic pilots. People notice that my engine runs very smoothly at low rpm. Very satisfied!

A lot depends on you, when you think "you" need to do the rebuild.
From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:18 PM
Subject: RE: Overhaul - New


Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.

However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it. If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.
IMHO!
LINN
Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas.-------- Original message --------From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com> Date: 03/17/2017 9:55 AM (GMT-05:00) To rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject Overhaul - New Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period


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jdriggs49(at)MSN.COM
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:


Quote:
FYI:

If you really need to rebuild it I would consider talking with Barret In Tulsa. Not that much higher cost but they do a better balance, in my opinion, check with them. Also they do work for a few aerobatic pilots. People notice that my engine runs very smoothly at low rpm. Very satisfied!

A lot depends on you, when you think "you" need to do the rebuild.


From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 8:18 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Overhaul - New


Lycomings are dirt simple. With the assembly and parts manual I'd overhaul it myself .... the hardest thing is splitting the case.

However, I wouldn't touch it just because it has 2000 hours on it. If the engine has good oil pressure and compression .... fly it.The best thing you can do for your engine is use it often.
IMHO!
LINN


Sent from Samsung tablet cruising on the majesty Of The Seas. -------- Original message -------- From Jim Combs <jiminlexky(at)gmail.com (jiminlexky(at)gmail.com)> Date: 03/17/2017 9:55 AM (GMT-05:00) To rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) Subject RV10-List: Overhaul - New Questions for the group:

I am getting close to the 2000 hour point on my IO-540-C4B5 and am looking at options:

(1) Replace with a new Lycoming from Vans (47K)

(2) Replace with a Titan X540 engine from ECI (44K)

(3) Purchase an overhauled engine from ???

(4) Overhaul it myself. I have replaced cylinders and overhauled automotive engines but not a Lycoming.

Any comments on any specific option?

Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F - Flying 1000+ Hours over a 6 year period














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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1032
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

No question BPA does superb overhauls. There are a dozen or so top notch rebuilders around the country. Mine was produced by Lycon Engines in Visalia, CA. I get comments from almost all pilots who hear it taxi by or idle at how smooth it sounds. I suggest that quality shops that are within say 3 hours flying distance are a bit easier to work with, because of proximity, they are probably familiar with your climate and elevation and can tune to that. Not to mention that if the unusual problem crops up, it is easier for all to get the builder and the engine back together to resolve the issue.

I will also suggest that a shop that does nothing but engines is going to do a better job that is more likely to reach TBO than one you do yourself. You will get some warranty, something you can't provide to yourself. I have the knowledge, license and experience to do an overhaul, but if I have the time and money, I would rather one of the expert shops do the job.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Overhaul - New Reply with quote

Amen to all of this.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
352-427-0285
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Sent from my iPad

On Mar 19, 2017, at 8:00 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
No question BPA does superb overhauls. There are a dozen or so top notch rebuilders around the country. Mine was produced by Lycon Engines in Visalia, CA. I get comments from almost all pilots who hear it taxi by or idle at how smooth it sounds. I suggest that quality shops that are within say 3 hours flying distance are a bit easier to work with, because of proximity, they are probably familiar with your climate and elevation and can tune to that. Not to mention that if the unusual problem crops up, it is easier for all to get the builder and the engine back together to resolve the issue.

I will also suggest that a shop that does nothing but engines is going to do a better job that is more likely to reach TBO than one you do yourself. You will get some warranty, something you can't provide to yourself. I have the knowledge, license and experience to do an overhaul, but if I have the time and money, I would rather one of the expert shops do the job.
-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I have a Barrett IO-540. If you already have an engine it's a lot cheaper to rebuild as I've discussed that several times with Rhonda. I'm sold on their engines. They are very smooth and sound different than any others.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2017, at 12:02 AM, Jerry Stark <jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net (jerry_stark(at)prodigy.net)> wrote:






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