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Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

At 09:38 AM 4/9/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 

 > Also, in the past someone told me that a crimp on butt end connector creates a more secure and durable wire splice than if the two ends were soldered together.ï¿½ Is that true? 	


   no



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  No, the two methods are equal.  Some might argue that soldering is better.  The disadvantage of soldering is that solder wicks into the wire and makes it stiff which could lead to breaking if subject to vibration. 	


   also not true



  	  Quote: 	
		    But good support and a couple of layers of heat shrink will prevent that.  Crimped wires also need support. 	


   EXACTLY. risks from stress risers on strands of wire

   rise at the TRANSITION from strands (flexible) to

   solid (inflexible). That solid thingy happens

   whether you solder or mash. Hence the PIDG

   design which provides the SAME support to

   crimped wires as that which is recommended

   for soldered wires as well.



  http://tinyurl.com/mz89on7



 

 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

At 09:00 AM 4/9/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All,

  

 I am rewiring my airplane and am therefore making wire runs to the Lightspeed Plasma III ignition systems.

  

 The Plasma ignition systems input connector uses DSub 15 plugs so I have utilized the M39029/63-368 crimp on connectors for all of the 20-24 AWG wires that push into the connector however I have according to the directions used an 18 AWG positive wire and an 18 AWG negative wire for the power and ground.  To make this phase of the project more dramatic, the Plasma input connector has two positive pins and two negative pins on its connector so I need to figure out to go from my single 18 AWG positive wire and divide it up into two wires that will each fit into its respective M39029/63-368 ORANGE-BLUE-GRAY crimp on connector.

  

 Is there a M39029/63-3XX crimp on connector that is designed for 18 to 20 AWG wire? 	


    Those pins WILL accept a 20AWG wire. Run two pairs of 20AWG,

    one for power the other for ground. Let each wire enjoy

    its own d-sub pin; bring them together at the source and

    ground connections.



    The LightSpeed 6-cyl ignition system draws about

    2.5A at 2700 rpm . . . the 4-cyl is about 2/3

    that amount. The system would perform happily

    with a single 22AWG feeder for power and ground.

    A pair of 20AWG for each feeder is still . . .

    shall we say? . . . exceedingly robust.



    A bit of trivia on this topic, you CAN buy pins

    for d-subs that will accept larger wires. The crimps

    are OUTSIDE the pin cavity in the connector with a

    longer stem extending into the connector cavity. They

    are expensive and not easy to find and used ONLY

    when the LENGTH of the wire run offers an unacceptable

    voltage drop within the connector pin's normal rated

    current. I've only seen such pins in the wild once in

    my lifetime . . . and if memory serves, they were soldered

    onto the wires.



    The crimped mil-spec pins are rated at 7A under

    benign environments . . . I generally never run

    them at more than 5 . . . especially when paralleling

    for high current applications.



  http://tinyurl.com/mzauc8b



    I used this technique on a super-sonic target

    for the Navy and the process was repeated on some

    power distribution components in the B4000 Horizon.



    Oh yeah, if you need the too-large wire to compensate

    for voltage drop, then it's perfectly acceptable to

    prune the strands on an 18AWG to get them into the

    20AWG pin.  But I'm betting a dollar to a dozen donuts

    that the OBAM aircraft owner will NEVER encounter such

    a situation. It's also a certainty that the LightSpeed

    system secures no performance enhancements with

    the pudgy supply wires.



 

   Bob . . .

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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

Hi All,

 

This advice is most helpful…THANKS!!!

 

Yes I know the Plasma instructions said to not fool with the input connectors however I dinked up the cable so I had to…Grrr…  Since the ignition system is somewhat important I decided to go with the MIL spec connector pins.  I imagine that solder-on DSub connectors would be the best way to go however with my soldering skills and lack of patients the crimp on pins seemed to be the the way to go.  I was very careful with each crimp and did a pull test and they did not fall off.  The Eclipse crimper tool is really good and makes professional crimps even with me using it.

 

The airplane in question is a Velocity (plastic pusher) and I am running two Plasma units each connected to the battery terminals of their respective independent electrical system.

 

Electrical system 1 has the battery in the nose so its electrical path is from the battery POS terminal to the CB, to the expensive MIL spec switch mounted on the panel, to the POS D-Sub pins on the ignition module mounted way back on the cold side (front) of the firewall and then from the ignition module NEG pins all the way forward to the NEG terminal of the battery up in the nose.

 

Electrical system 2 has the battery under the rear seat so its electrical path is from the battery POS terminal forward to the CB, to the expensive MIL spec switch mounted on the panel, and then back to the POS D-Sub pins on the ignition module mounted way back on the cold side (front) of the firewall and then from the ignition module NEG pins forward to the NEG terminal of the battery mounted under the rear seat.

 

With these long distances I felt that 18 AWG wire was a good idea.

 

THANKS AGAIN!!!

..

 

Cheers!!!

 

Bill  Hunter

 

 

 



 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Sunday, April 9, 2017 9:14 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

 

At 09:00 AM 4/9/2017, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Hi All,

 

I am rewiring my airplane and am therefore making wire runs to the Lightspeed Plasma III ignition systems.

 

The Plasma ignition systems input connector uses DSub 15 plugs so I have utilized the M39029/63-368 crimp on connectors for all of the 20-24 AWG wires that push into the connector however I have according to the directions used an 18 AWG positive wire and an 18 AWG negative wire for the power and ground.  To make this phase of the project more dramatic, the Plasma input connector has two positive pins and two negative pins on its connector so I need to figure out to go from my single 18 AWG positive wire and divide it up into two wires that will each fit into its respective M39029/63-368 ORANGE-BLUE-GRAY crimp on connector.

 

Is there a M39029/63-3XX crimp on connector that is designed for 18 to 20 AWG wire? 	




   Those pins WILL accept a 20AWG wire. Run two pairs of 20AWG,

   one for power the other for ground. Let each wire enjoy

   its own d-sub pin; bring them together at the source and

   ground connections.



   The LightSpeed 6-cyl ignition system draws about

   2.5A at 2700 rpm . . . the 4-cyl is about 2/3

   that amount. The system would perform happily

   with a single 22AWG feeder for power and ground.

   A pair of 20AWG for each feeder is still . . .

   shall we say? . . . exceedingly robust.



   A bit of trivia on this topic, you CAN buy pins

   for d-subs that will accept larger wires. The crimps

   are OUTSIDE the pin cavity in the connector with a

   longer stem extending into the connector cavity. They

   are expensive and not easy to find and used ONLY

   when the LENGTH of the wire run offers an unacceptable

   voltage drop within the connector pin's normal rated

   current. I've only seen such pins in the wild once in

   my lifetime . . . and if memory serves, they were soldered

   onto the wires.



   The crimped mil-spec pins are rated at 7A under

   benign environments . . . I generally never run

   them at more than 5 . . . especially when paralleling

   for high current applications.



http://tinyurl.com/mzauc8b



   I used this technique on a super-sonic target

   for the Navy and the process was repeated on some

   power distribution components in the B4000 Horizon.



   Oh yeah, if you need the too-large wire to compensate

   for voltage drop, then it's perfectly acceptable to

   prune the strands on an 18AWG to get them into the

   20AWG pin.  But I'm betting a dollar to a dozen donuts

   that the OBAM aircraft owner will NEVER encounter such

   a situation. It's also a certainty that the LightSpeed

   system secures no performance enhancements with

   the pudgy supply wires.



  Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: Is there M39029/63-3XX For 18 AWG Wire?!?!?

At 01:55 PM 4/9/2017, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob, just curious... how comfortable are you with using theÂ  M39029/63-3 crimp on pins for the ignition system D-Sub connector as opposed to the solder on type? 	


   No difference. Properly installed wires

   passing though quality connectors are

   generally considered to have failure

   rates less than one per billion flight

   hours. 



   I've read failure rate studies on dozens

   of systems having high orders of system

   criticality as demonstrated by detailed

   studies of component failure rates for the

   resistors, transistors, capacitors and

   all manner of electro-jelly-beans. Then

   they run even the simplest software

   through rigorous certification and configuration

   control protocols.



   After all the bureaucratic thrashing dies

   down you can ask: "Does this appliance have

   and critical power or signal pathways that

   pass through connectors?" "Of course," they

   say. "But failure rates for those assemblies

   are insignificant in the grand scheme of things."



   For YOUR personal failure analysis consider

   that you have TWO ignition systems. The engine

   runs very happily on ONE system. If one system

   fails, you probably won't notice it in flight

   but you will at next pre-flight. Next consider

   the probability that BOTH systems will go

   T.U. on any single tank full of gas.



   You can have terrible failure rates for each

   system and still fly with confidence . . . like

   we've been doing with dual magnetos for over

   100 years.



   If it were my airplane, one system would run

   from the battery bus, the other would run

   from the e-bus. Wire with single 20AWG feeders

   and stay away from hooking anything directly

   to the battery(ies).



   It's far too easy to get wrapped around 'reliability

   axles' and  loose track of the real risk factors.

   That's what happened with N811HB about ten years

   ago   http://tinyurl.com/msfmldj



   KISS

     



 

 

   Bob . . .

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