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RS-232 GPS Input

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Folks,



I am considering an ARTEX ELT 345 which requires a GPS signal to its "Built-in GPS Navigational Interface (NMEA 0183 or RS 232)." If I understand how to do this correctly from a Garmin GNS-430W, I just take the RS-232 signal and a ground and run them to the ELT. Right? 

The last time I did any RS-232 wiring was between DEC VAX computers and VT-100 terminals in the 1980s. Is there anything that I should know with regards to wiring these more modern devices?

Thanks,

    -- Art Z.



-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Art,

You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.



I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!



Good Luck,

Ralph



--

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Art,

 You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

 The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

 Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

 Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.

 

 I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!

 

 Good Luck,

 Ralph

 

 --

donvansanten(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



Charlie,



The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one please let me know. 





On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Art,

 You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

 The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

 Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

 Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.

 

 I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!

 

 Good Luck,

 Ralph

 

 --

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

1. He was using the GPS for ELT, not ADS-B. Does not need to meet any 

approval.

2. The Dynon 2020 GPS puck meets the requirement, but it isn't cheap, at 

$590. May not work with other brands.



On 4/12/2017 1:01 PM, don van santen wrote:

[quote] Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, &

 have an independent source.



 Charlie,

 The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do

 not know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of

 one please let me know.



 On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com

 <mailto:ceengland7(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



     Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial

     output, & have an independent source.



     On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen

     <recapen(at)earthlink.net <mailto:recapen(at)earthlink.net>> wrote:



         

         <recapen(at)earthlink.net <mailto:recapen(at)earthlink.net>>



         Art,

         You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

         The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to

         "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

         Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct

         output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600

         baud rate should take care of it.

         Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your

         panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for

         "Aviation" and you should be good to go.



         I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between

         ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+"

         (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting

         with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I

         needed to run a separate wire just for this!



         Good Luck,

         Ralph



         --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2871

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.



On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com (donvansanten(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



Charlie,



The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one please let me know. 





On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Art,

 You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

 The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

 Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

 Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.

 

 I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!

 

 Good Luck,

 Ralph

 

 --

ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

The new Dynon GPS antenna/device is approved it may only talk to dynon,  however.

 Rich

  

  In a message dated 4/12/2017 3:44:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:

 [quote]   

   This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.

   



   

On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com (donvansanten(at)gmail.com)>    wrote:

   [quote]          Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial      output, & have an independent source.           



     Charlie,



     The 2020 rules for ADS-B out      require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not know of ant "puck" GPS that      meets this requirement. If you know of one please let me know.      



     

     On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England      <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

     [quote]       Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with        serial output, & have an independent source.

       

       On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen        <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

       [quote]-->          AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>



Art,

You're pretty          much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

The 430W has          multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can          simply fork that output signal wire.

Make sure that output port on          the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the          ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

Wiring a          different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good          access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be          good to go.



I just did this to add ADSB and learned the          difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed          "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while          troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation"          port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!



Good          Luck,

Ralph



--

donvansanten(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Sorry. I guess I need to get my eyes checked. DDon

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

[quote]

This is for an ELT, not ADS-B.



On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:01 PM, don van santen <donvansanten(at)gmail.com (donvansanten(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



Charlie,



The 2020 rules for ADS-B out require an approved WAAS GPS source. I do not know of ant "puck" GPS that meets this requirement. If you know of one please let me know. 





On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Another option is to go to ebay for a $20 gps puck with serial output, & have an independent source.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Art,

 You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

 The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

 Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

 Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.

 

 I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!

 

 Good Luck,

 Ralph

 

 --

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Ralph,



Thanks for confirming. I do intend to feed both the ADS-B and the ELT from the 430W. I read of lots of people just splitting the signal to feed two devices, which seems odd to me but then this is one-way communication so I guess it ought to work. And I will check my ADS-B documentation carefully to be sure that I get the right signal from the 430W.

So... just a single twisted pair for these RS-232 devices? I don't need any of the other pins besides + and - ???

Should I shield it and, if so, where do I ground the shield?

    -- Art Z.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Art,

 You're pretty much on the money...couple of tricks with the 430W:

 The 430W has multiple output ports - if you have one set to "Aviation", you can simply fork that output signal wire.

 Make sure that output port on the 430W is set to the correct output type ("Aviation") to match the ARTEX - the default 9600 baud rate should take care of it.

 Wiring a different port from the 430W is a PITB unless your panel has real good access.  Configure your new port for "Aviation" and you should be good to go.

 

 I just did this to add ADSB and learned the difference between ports and protocols output from the 430W - I needed "ADS-B OUT+" (wasn't in the original manual - found out while troubleshooting with vendor) and had it connected to the "Aviation" port.  I needed to run a separate wire just for this!

 

 Good Luck,

 Ralph

 

 --

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Art,



I may not have been clear enough...



 	  Quote: 	
		  From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from the 430W.  It looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin 9).  If you have something else that already uses "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that port/wire - otherwise, see the next paragraph.

 
	


Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+" from the 430W - mine did.  This required me to use a different port on the 430W for the ADSB box.  I used a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine.  It was a different port!



I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why it wasn't working (install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech support after I had already wired it the other way.



I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know and I'll send it direct!



Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!



Ralph

--

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to actually making wires, I'll be back in touch if I am confused.



    -- Art Z.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 

 Art,

 

 I may not have been clear enough...

 

 >From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs "Aviation" from the 430W.  It looks like you can use a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin 9).  If you have something else that already uses "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that port/wire - otherwise, see the next paragraph.

 

 Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B OUT+" from the 430W - mine did.  This required me to use a different port on the 430W for the ADSB box.  I used a single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for mine.  It was a different port!

 

 I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring out why it wasn't working (install manual didn't call out "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech support after I had already wired it the other way.

 

 I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let me know and I'll send it direct!

 

 Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!

 

 Ralph

 

 

 --

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Happy to help!

--

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

It might be worth mentioning that the       electrons have to get back home, even if it's only signal data. If       you float the shield on one end, then the return path is the       airframe. *If* it's a metal airplane, and both of the devices are       grounded to the airframe. 

       

       So that idea may work fine in an aluminum or steel tube a/c, but       in a Velocity/Lancair/etc, not so much. And even in a metal a/c,       it *could* leave the signal vulnerable to noise on the ground side       of the circuit.

       

       There's a lot of myth & metaphysics parading as universal       truth around shields and grounding. (Pardon the pun...)

       

       Charlie

       

       On 4/12/2017 6:19 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

     

     [quote]       That clears it up. Thank you, Ralph. When I get to         actually making wires, I'll be back in touch if I am confused.         

         

             -- Art Z.

         

         

         

           On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM,             Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>             wrote:

             [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:                 "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

                 

                 

                 Art,

                 

               I may not have been clear enough...

               

               >From my reading of the ARTEX ELT manual, it needs               "Aviation" from the 430W.  It looks like you can use a               single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for               the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ARTEX end - pin               9).  If you have something else that already uses               "Aviation", you can do a take-off from that port/wire -               otherwise, see the next paragraph.

               

               Depending on the ADSB box, it will most likely need "ADS-B               OUT+" from the 430W - mine did.  This required me to use a               different port on the 430W for the ADSB box.  I used a               single pin shielded wire (grounded at the 430W end) for               the TX (at the 430W end) to the RX (at the ADSB end) for               mine.  It was a different port!

               

               I have already 'wasted' the troubleshooting hours figuring               out why it wasn't working (install manual didn't call out               "ADS-B OUT+" - I had to get that from tech support after I               had already wired it the other way.

               

               I've got a picture of the 430W config if you want it - let               me know and I'll send it direct!

               

               Hope this clears the mud I stirred up!

               

                 Ralph

                 

                 

                 --

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: RS-232 GPS Input

Good point - I was only considering a metal frame!  If bonding is a part of the builder scenario, the return path becomes an actual requirement - which can be satisfied in a number of ways!



The documents for the ARTEX  make a similar consideration as well.....



--

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