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DIe Spring gear
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steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Kenny and Oscar, My piet squatted down on the gear when I added the wings. Bigtime!
Apparently the bungees are not tight enough and/or old. I have decided to go with the coil spring system.

Several others including William Wynne have done a spring in a can system. It also has good reviews. I am inclined to do it the way WW describes it on his website.

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/



 The local welder looked at the system and like many non EAA types started talking about seamless tubing and much more expensive materiel. He said he would weld what I wanted.
I just want to confirm with those who have built it. , The interior is a one inch rod. The Can is 2.25 ID seamed tubing. The washer inside is a 2 inch washer. The washers on the can are 2.25 washers. It is not a precisely machined item exept the welds should be square and flush.
Anything else I need to know?
Wag Aero sells a set for $319.99 and you still have to cut it to length and put eye holes in the ends. The spring is exposed. The system has good reviews.


https://www.wagaero.com/wag-aero-kit-airplanes/sport-trainer/landing-gear-kit-options/sport-trainer-die-spring-shock-strut-kit-fabricated.html


Opinions invited!
--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

(at)font-face{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
I recently modified my bungee system to the closed can setup Wm Wynn designed.† It works great, but is significantly heavier.† The aircraft seems to fly better with the less draggy new shocks. If I had it to do over again, I would have used the springs originally.
Ben Charvet
NX866BC
330 hrs in 7 years

On May 8, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Kenny and Oscar, My piet squatted down on the gear when I added the wings. Bigtime!
Apparently the bungees are not tight enough and/or old. I have decided to go with the coil spring system.

Several others including William Wynne have done a spring in a can system. It also has good reviews. I am inclined to do it the way WW describes it on his website.

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/



 The local welder looked at the system and like many non EAA types started talking about seamless tubing and much more expensive materiel. He said he would weld what I wanted.
I just want to confirm with those who have built it. , The interior is a one inch rod. The Can is 2.25 ID seamed tubing. The washer inside is a 2 inch washer. The washers on the can are 2.25 washers. It is not a precisely machined item exept the welds should be square and flush.
Anything else I need to know?
Wag Aero sells a set for $319.99 and you still have to cut it to length and put eye holes in the ends. The spring is exposed. The system has good reviews.


https://www.wagaero.com/wag-aero-kit-airplanes/sport-trainer/landing-gear-kit-options/sport-trainer-die-spring-shock-strut-kit-fabricated.html


Opinions invited!
--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1532
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Steve; my airplane has the spring struts and since it's the only Piet I've ever flown, I have nothing to compare it to. I absolutely agree with William's opinion that sitting taller on the gear looks better and gives a more positive 3-point landing. The tail on my airplane sits just a bit higher than some, so I think I get a little more float and slightly less solid 3-point landings than if it sat higher on the mains. The springs on mine are not captive, instead using the "Bingelis-style" sliding setup with bolts riding in slots. I've always thought that the slots create the weakest points in this spring strut system and they have more parts and fussing to assemble than William's "spring in a can" arrangement.

I'm not sure where you're seeing that the Wag-Aero spring struts only cost $319.99 though. The link you provided goes to a page that shows them as $575.75. Given that they are for the Sport Trainer which grosses at 1200+ lbs, there should be no reason why the Wag-Aero struts won't work... and they are already assembled and just need to be fitted to length.


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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Steve,

Here is a link to another story that William wrote about die spring gear, the ones he installed on my Pietenpol -

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/

Have your welder take a look at the pictures of the tubing ends. It may help him to see what you need done.

Hope it helps.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Andre, Please confirm the specifications for WW's Canned spring.
1 inch rod with 2 inch OD washer welded on.

6 inch long die spring, one inch ID, 2 inch OD

The Can is Nothing special  (IE Seamless tubing)

2.25 ID steel tubing six inch long  with 2.25  inch OD washers on both ends with 1 in ID (or should this be 1.25 or 1.125 ID?)
Fittings on each end for AN4 Bolts.
The spring is under slight compression inside the can.
Please confirm or deny (Check or hold! in Artillery terms)

Am I missing anything?


On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Andre B. Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com (bencharvet(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

I recently modified my bungee system to the closed can setup Wm Wynn designed.  It works great, but is significantly heavier.  The aircraft seems to fly better with the less draggy new shocks. If I had it to do over again, I would have used the springs originally.
Ben Charvet
NX866BC
330 hrs in 7 years

On May 8, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com (steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



Ladies and Gentlemen, and Kenny and Oscar, My piet squatted down on the gear when I added the wings. Bigtime!
Apparently the bungees are not tight enough and/or old. I have decided to go with the coil spring system.

Several others including William Wynne have done a spring in a can system. It also has good reviews. I am inclined to do it the way WW describes it on his website.

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/



 The local welder looked at the system and like many non EAA types started talking about seamless tubing and much more expensive materiel. He said he would weld what I wanted.
I just want to confirm with those who have built it. , The interior is a one inch rod. The Can is 2.25 ID seamed tubing. The washer inside is a 2 inch washer. The washers on the can are 2.25 washers. It is not a precisely machined item exept the welds should be square and flush.
Anything else I need to know?
Wag Aero sells a set for $319.99 and you still have to cut it to length and put eye holes in the ends. The spring is exposed. The system has good reviews.


https://www.wagaero.com/wag-aero-kit-airplanes/sport-trainer/landing-gear-kit-options/sport-trainer-die-spring-shock-strut-kit-fabricated.html


Opinions invited!
--
Blue Skies,

Steve D




--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Terry, I did show my welder the WW article. He proposed some expensive add ons. IE seamless 2inch steel pipe. I think he has over thought the project.

Please confirm the specifications for WW's Canned spring.
1 inch rod with 2 inch OD washer welded on.

6 inch long die spring, one inch ID, 2 inch OD

The Can is Nothing special  (IE Seamless tubing)

2.25 ID steel tubing six inch long  with 2.25  inch OD washers on both ends with 1 in ID (or should this be 1.25 or 1.125 ID?)
Fittings on each end for AN4 Bolts.
The spring is under slight compression inside the can.
Please confirm or deny (Check or hold! in Artillery terms)

Am I missing anything?

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

Here is a link to another story that William wrote about die spring gear, the ones he installed on my Pietenpol -

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/

Have your welder take a look at the pictures of the tubing ends. It may help him to see what you need done.

Hope it helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469149#469149






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Blue Skies,

Steve D


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

The can is 2.25 OD, 2.0 ID

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com (steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Terry, I did show my welder the WW article. He proposed some expensive add ons. IE seamless 2inch steel pipe. I think he has over thought the project.

Please confirm the specifications for WW's Canned spring.
1 inch rod with 2 inch OD washer welded on.

6 inch long die spring, one inch ID, 2 inch OD

The Can is Nothing special (IE Seamless tubing)

2.25 ID steel tubing six inch long with 2.25 inch OD washers on both ends with 1 in ID (or should this be 1.25 or 1.125 ID?)
Fittings on each end for AN4 Bolts.
The spring is under slight compression inside the can.
Please confirm or deny (Check or hold! in Artillery terms)

Am I missing anything?

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

Here is a link to another story that William wrote about die spring gear, the ones he installed on my Pietenpol -

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/

Have your welder take a look at the pictures of the tubing ends. It may help him to see what you need done.

Hope it helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469149#469149






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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================




--
Blue Skies,

Steve D




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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Ben, My concern is that the OD of the Spring and the "Plunger" washer is 2 in. OD. if the Can is 2 in ID that makes for a very tight fit. Especially if the 2in Pipe has a weld inside. That will scrape.
SD
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com (bencharvet(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
The can is 2.25 OD, 2.0 ID

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com (steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Terry, I did show my welder the WW article. He proposed some expensive add ons. IE seamless 2inch steel pipe. I think he has over thought the project.

Please confirm the specifications for WW's Canned spring.
1 inch rod with 2 inch OD washer welded on.

6 inch long die spring, one inch ID, 2 inch OD

The Can is Nothing special  (IE Seamless tubing)

2.25 ID steel tubing six inch long  with 2.25  inch OD washers on both ends with 1 in ID (or should this be 1.25 or 1.125 ID?)
Fittings on each end for AN4 Bolts.
The spring is under slight compression inside the can.
Please confirm or deny (Check or hold! in Artillery terms)

Am I missing anything?

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

Here is a link to another story that William wrote about die spring gear, the ones he installed on my Pietenpol -

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/

Have your welder take a look at the pictures of the tubing ends. It may help him to see what you need done.

Hope it helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469149#469149






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Blue Skies,

Steve D




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Steve D


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Steve,

According to the Spruce website, a 2.25" 4130 tube has an ID of 2.010". Hopefully the extra 10 mils would be enough clearance. I'm anxious to try this on my GN-1 which has bungee cords (but hasn't flown yet).

Regards,
John F.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

John, That is exactly what I am trying to do. Thank you. I will hit my welder up with the idea to measure the ID on his 2.25 tubing. He has a vast amount of materiel.
Blue Skies,

Steve D
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com (jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com (jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com)>

Steve,

According to the Spruce website, a 2.25" 4130 tube has an ID of 2.010".  Hopefully the extra 10 mils would be enough clearance.  I'm anxious to try this on my GN-1 which has bungee cords (but hasn't flown yet).

Regards,
John F.

--


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

(at)font-face{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
I was unable to find a sturdy washer with a 2 inch OD that was a tight fit in the inside tube. You may need to find a friend with a lathe.† I wish now I had taken pictures when I made mine, but I had to use the lathe on the inside of some washers and the outside of others.† Mine was a retrofit, so the top washer needed to fit the original top tube (3/4?).† The bottom washer needs to allow the tube inside the spring to slide (1 inch in mine).† Both top and bottom washers need 2.25 OD.† The washer at the top of the plunger needed 1 in inside diameter and 2 in outside.† That one has a pretty critical weld, in mine I extended the plunger tube 1/2 inch last the washer, and made my outer can longer to compensate. By doing this I could keep my springs away from most of the heat of the last weld.
Ben

On May 9, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Ben, My concern is that the OD of the Spring and the "Plunger" washer is 2 in. OD. if the Can is 2 in ID that makes for a very tight fit. Especially if the 2in Pipe has a weld inside. That will scrape.
SD
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com (bencharvet(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
The can is 2.25 OD, 2.0 ID

Sent from my iPhone

On May 9, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com (steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Terry, I did show my welder the WW article. He proposed some expensive add ons. IE seamless 2inch steel pipe. I think he has over thought the project.

Please confirm the specifications for WW's Canned spring.
1 inch rod with 2 inch OD washer welded on.

6 inch long die spring, one inch ID, 2 inch OD

The Can is Nothing special  (IE Seamless tubing)

2.25 ID steel tubing six inch long  with 2.25  inch OD washers on both ends with 1 in ID (or should this be 1.25 or 1.125 ID?)
Fittings on each end for AN4 Bolts.
The spring is under slight compression inside the can.
Please confirm or deny (Check or hold! in Artillery terms)

Am I missing anything?

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

Here is a link to another story that William wrote about die spring gear, the ones he installed on my Pietenpol -

https://flycorvair.net/2015/05/01/steel-tube-pietenpol-fuselage-with-landing-gear-and-12-x-4-8-tires/

Have your welder take a look at the pictures of the tubing ends. It may help him to see what you need done.

Hope it helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469149#469149






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Blue Skies,

Steve D




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Steve D


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Joined: 21 Mar 2011
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Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Steve,

FWIW, these are the die springs that I used in my gear. They were a good bit cheaper than ACS or Wag Aero, but with the needed strength as indicated by William in his article.

YMMV. Hope it helps.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

OK Terry, I just got off the phone with Diamondwire. Two EH200-600 springs are on their way to New Berlin, Texas.
I have drawn everything out and once I have the springs will hit my welder up.
Did anyone use their old Bungee system for parts?
Also. I am just confirming, the 1 inch diameter is  a heavy walled tube, or is it solid bar?
Blue Skies,

Steve D
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:09 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

FWIW, these are the die springs that I used in my gear. They were a good bit cheaper than ACS or Wag Aero, but with the needed strength as indicated by William in his article.

YMMV. Hope it helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469197#469197




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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Steve,

Here is a copy of the invoice for what William Wynne had me order for fabricating the gear.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Terry,

I don't see any 2-1/4" tubing on the invoice. Did WW not use that for your application or perhaps he already had some?

Thanks,
John F.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

I used heavy walled so the old lower end slid inside it

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com (steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
OK Terry, I just got off the phone with Diamondwire. Two EH200-600 springs are on their way to New Berlin, Texas.
I have drawn everything out and once I have the springs will hit my welder up.
Did anyone use their old Bungee system for parts?
Also. I am just confirming, the 1 inch diameter is a heavy walled tube, or is it solid bar?
Blue Skies,

Steve D
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:09 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Steve,

FWIW, these are the die springs that I used in my gear. They were a good bit cheaper than ACS or Wag Aero, but with the needed strength as indicated by William in his article.

YMMV. Hope it helps.

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Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

John F.,

I measured the die spring "can" and it was indeed 2.25 tubing. I can only assume that William already had some on hand, but that does appear to be what it was made of.

Hope that helps.


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tkreiner



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

Terry,

After reviewing the list of materials WW had you purchase, I'm scratching my head wondering the gear is constructed.

Would it be possible to get a sketch of the gear showing tube sizes; i.e., what goes where? Obviously, some tubing needs to telescope within others, but the lengths shown on the Invoice don't make complete sense without some form of a sketch or drawing.

If you can pull a sketch together, I'll create a formal drawing and post online for all to review.

Thanks,


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

per aircraft spruce the inside diameter (ID) of 2.25 inch outer diameter tubing is 2.10 inch. This allows a 2 inch washer room to move in the "can".

On May 12, 2017 3:53 AM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

John F.,

I measured the die spring "can" and it was indeed 2.25 tubing. I can only assume that William already had some on hand, but that does appear to be what it was made of.

Hope that helps.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: DIe Spring gear Reply with quote

I am currently out of the country, but will be back tomorrow. I will try to get some measurements together over the weekend and post them.

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