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Soft spot on inside wing

 
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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 63
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:11 am    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Hi Guys,
My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:

*

==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================

Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS


================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================


----------------------------------------------------------
KIS-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac(at)comcast.net)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)
3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)


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Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 249
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Steve,
Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.
If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Bob Reed


PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like the TR-4.

From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net" <pastormac(at)comcast.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM
Subject: Soft spot on inside wing


Hi Guys,

My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:

*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS


=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================


  ----------------------------------------------------------
  KIS-List Digest Archive
    ---
  Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net))
2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies  (M Ketteing)
3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)


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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 63
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Thanks Bob!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

On May 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Steve,
Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.
If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Bob Reed


PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like the TR-4.

From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)" <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Soft spot on inside wing


Hi Guys,

My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:

*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS


=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================


----------------------------------------------------------
    KIS-List Digest Archive
  ---
  Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
  ----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net))
2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)
  3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)







- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 63
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Hi Bob,
Do you know what type of form core is in the wing? How many layers of fiber glass cloth on the external skin?

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

On May 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Steve,
Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.
If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Bob Reed


PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like the TR-4.

From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)" <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Soft spot on inside wing


Hi Guys,

My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:

*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-05-15&Archive=KIS


=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================


----------------------------------------------------------
    KIS-List Digest Archive
  ---
  Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
  ----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net))
2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)
  3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)







- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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View user's profile Send private message
Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 249
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Steve,
I can't recall ever having heard the type of foam or the number of glass layers utilized. I know that is was a rather dense foam and you can probably examine it by looking at some of the inspection panels if they weren't filled in on the sides.
By the way, there is a copy of the TR1 Builders manual on my web site. There are also a number of construction photos for the TR1.


http://kisbuild.onfinal18.com/KIS-TR1-Web/Builders_Manual.html

Bob

From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net" <pastormac(at)comcast.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: Soft spot on inside wing


Hi Bob,
Do you know what type of form core is in the wing? How many layers of fiber glass cloth on the external skin? To our success, Stephen McIntosh
On May 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Steve,

Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.

If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Bob Reed
PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like the TR-4.

From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)" <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)> To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM Subject: Soft spot on inside wing
Hi Guys,
My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
To our success, Stephen McIntosh > On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:> > *> > =========================> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive> =========================> > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version:> > pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net))> 2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)> 3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)





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flyinisfun90(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Soft spot on inside wing Reply with quote

Stephen,
I strongly suggest you do not fill just the holes you drill. Your
problem is going to require removing the honey comb material inside
the area that has come loose, replacing it with new honey comb
material, matted in epoxy. Before this though, for sure, is it over
the gas tank? If so you will want to glass the bottom first with
wetted cloth, sealing the area. If it won't support this process first
then cut our the bottom glass and glass the bottom of the area with
rings of cloth, getting small with each layer because you will need to
have your hand under the glass to place it until you get the hole
small enough you can now span it from on top. This would take about
three layers to get the hole small enough that the glass you put on
from the top will complete the cover. This I would make about three
layers. Put this in place after it has just began to set, depending
on the temperature. It might sage some but mat it in with fresh
epoxy. When this is still tacky but hard enough to press against, lay
in new honeycomb that one side has been removed. Again put this in
place with a fresh layer of epoxy. In all this, because the epoxy
layers are somewhat thick, always mix fiber or fox in the resins.
Don't use just epoxy. When this hardens for a couple of days, but no
more, after having hand sanded the top of the surrounding area, put a
lay-up of three glass layers, feather this out wider than the hole you
worked with. Let this set for maybe a week or so and see if it will
hold while hand pressing down on it. Feather all this out so it is
not visible.
Maybe the other guys will venture an evaluation of this process
as to what they think. If it is not over the gas tank, then there are
holes in the ribes that you can work through but would require
removing the wing to get to.

Good luck,
Jesse Wright

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 2:06 PM, <pastormac(at)comcast.net> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Bob,
Do you know what type of form core is in the wing? How many layers of fiber
glass cloth on the external skin?
To our success, Stephen McIntosh

On May 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:

Steve,

Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is
over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole
thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking
for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been
contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of
the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin
of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair
the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.

If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow
you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to
repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Bob Reed
PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like
the TR-4.
________________________________
From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net" <pastormac(at)comcast.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM
Subject: Soft spot on inside wing

Hi Guys,
My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the
cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the
wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and
that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives
in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the
black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any
suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server
> <kis-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:
>
> *
>
> =========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =========================
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-05-15&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-05-15&Archive=KIS
> =======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> =======================
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> KIS-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac(at)comcast.net)
> 2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)
> 3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)



- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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