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The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question -

I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for -


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

You could just weld on a little tab the fits into the other Kapler hinge.
That's what I would do.

Jerry
Sky Classic

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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Jerry,

I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab? If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post? Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.

Thanks for your input.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Why go through all that. As was said, just weld on a tab. Radius the back to fit the tail post ... simple.

KAP


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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Keri Ann,

I guess my question is really how to attach the hinge to the welded tab. Look at my drawing below (with my awesome drawing skills). Do I extend the tab with its own radiused tabs away from the post, weld the radiused tabs to the tail post with just enough room to slip some lock nuts between the tail post and the tab?

Not trying to make this complicated. I just am trying to think through this. Thanks for everyone's input.


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jarheadpilot82



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Keri Ann,

Duh!?!? I should have looked at the bottom of your post. That makes PERFECT SENSE! I will do it exactly like that, just not use the one hinge-half, weld on one tab like the one you have pictured, and call it a day.

Jerry,

I think that you both came up with, essentially the same simple answer. Keri Ann's picture just made it clearer (I am one of those people that needs the visual to make it clear.)

This is why I fly airplanes and others, like you, are engineers and other mechanically minded people.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Yes I would make a tab the very same size as the hinge tab. And use it as
the hinge. Then weld it to the post and it becomes the hinge.

I like it when a plan comes together.

Jerry

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Thanks to both of you.

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:55 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Could you braze the aluminum hinge to the steel tail post?
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:08 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question -

I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for -

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:03 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make the hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges.  I still think brazing would be the best answer.  Chuck
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Jerry,

I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.
Thanks for your input.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Terry, what ever you do, don't just think of the lower hinge.  Make sure the three hinges line up.  C
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Jerry,

I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.
Thanks for your input.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Terry,

I agree with everyone else, you need to weld A tab to your stab.

That said I'm not near a computer and I can't send you a good drawing file but if you will shoot me the diameter of the tubing, I'll model it up in the solid Works and send you both an isometric and a PDF of what the 1930s style tab would look like.

Tom


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Tom,

I am not quite there yet, but I will contact you in the near future. Thanks for the offer.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

I have attached a drawing of what I was talking about. Makes it all easy.

Jerry
Sky Classic

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles N. Campbell
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 6:03 AM
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Subject: Re: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make the hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges. I still think brazing would be the best answer. Chuck

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Jerry,

I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.
Thanks for your input.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA


Read this topic online here:

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Terry; I knew you were building a steel tube fuselage but I sent out the full set anyway so you'd have an extra casting to practice on <hahahaha>

Keri-Ann and the others nailed it. A tab it is! I think if it were me, I would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to determine where your weld tab needs to be. But you've already figured that out, I'm sure.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Oscar,

That is pretty much how I envisioned doing that part of the build. So thanks for validating my plan of attack. And I can't wait to prep the hinges. They are going to look great!

Thanks for keeping the Kapler/Zuniga hinges available.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Listen to Oscar!!! This is the right way to take care of this issue.

Clif
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noblest;
second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is
the bitterest." (Confucius)


Quote:
Keri-Ann and the others nailed it. A tab it is! I think if it were me, I
would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum
hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily
install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to
determine where your weld tab needs to be. But you've already figured
that out, I'm sure.

--------
Oscar Zuniga


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Terry,

Since I haven't heard back regarding tube diameters, I thought I'd just post this pic so you may design your own hinges.

As a Design Engineer, I'd use one of these at the top and one at the bottom with the curved portion of the tab pointing opposite each other. (The center hinge may be oriented in either direction...) That way, the rudder will be confined vertically (axially along rearmost vertical stabilizer tube).

From what I can tell, this part is typically an assembly using a circular section welded to the hinge pin tab. In order to make that as an assembly, the rounded piece is to carry any axial load. This prevents welds from shear loads.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Hello good Piet-ple,

Been out of touch for a while yet still moving forward nicely on my project.

Terry, here is a photo of my tailpost hinge prior to welding. I can't find a good photo of that specific area after welding...?!?!? The three rudder hinges line up real well yet you have to be very careful to always mount the horizontal stabilizer with the same number of washers/shims so the three rudder hinges are spaced properly.

I've been working on my center section for the past many months. There are some details that are taking more time than normal but "anything worth doing is worth over-doing...!!!!"

Have fun with the adventure....!


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage Reply with quote

Yes that is exactly what I was saying. That is the perfect way to do it.

Jerry
Sky Classic

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