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The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage
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jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question - 



I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for -

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_________________
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET
Guest

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:21 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

You could just weld on a little tab the fits into the other Kapler hinge.

That's what I would do.



Jerry

Sky Classic



--

jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Jerry,



I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab? If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post? Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.



Thanks for your input.

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Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

Last edited by jarheadpilot82 on Fri May 19, 2017 8:34 am; edited 2 times in total

womenfly2

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 224

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Why go through all that. As was said, just weld on a tab. Radius the back to fit the tail post ... simple.



KAP

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"The L-4 Project"
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jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Keri Ann,



I guess my question is really how to attach the hinge to the welded tab. Look at my drawing below (with my awesome drawing skills). Do I extend the tab with its own radiused tabs away from the post, weld the radiused tabs to the tail post with just enough room to slip some lock nuts between the tail post and the tab? 



Not trying to make this complicated. I just am trying to think through this. Thanks for everyone's input.

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Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Keri Ann,



Duh!?!? I should have looked at the bottom of your post. That makes PERFECT SENSE! I will do it exactly like that, just not use the one hinge-half, weld on one tab like the one you have pictured, and call it a day. 



Jerry,



I think that you both came up with, essentially the same simple answer. Keri Ann's picture just made it clearer (I am one of those people that needs the visual to make it clear.)



This is why I fly airplanes and others, like you, are engineers and other mechanically minded people.

_________________
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET
Guest

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Yes I would make a tab the very same size as the hinge tab. And use it as

the hinge. Then weld it to the post and it becomes the hinge.



I like it when a plan comes together.



Jerry



--

jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Thanks to both of you.

_________________
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

charlescampbell1924(at)gm
Guest

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:55 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Could you braze the aluminum hinge to the steel tail post?

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:08 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Maybe you builders and flyers waaay smarter than me can answer this simple question -

 

 I have the steel tube fuselage, but I built wooden tail feathers. Obviously, attaching the upper hinges to the vertical stab is pretty straightforward. I am at a bit of a loss as to how to attach the Kapler/Zuniga hinge (Yes, Oscar, that is what I am calling them moving forward) to the steel tube fuselage. That is to say, the lower-most hinge. See the photos for a further explanation of what I am looking for -

 

 --------

 Semper Fi,

 

 Terry Hand

 Athens, GA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469436#469436

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94121_am_512.png

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2017_05_19_at_94201_am_861.png

 

 

 

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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
Guest

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:03 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make the hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges.Â  I still think brazing would be the best answer.Â  Chuck

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Jerry,

 

 I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.

 Thanks for your input.

 

 --------

 Semper Fi,

 

 Terry Hand

 Athens, GA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg

 

 

 

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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
Guest

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:09 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry, what ever you do, don't just think of the lower hinge.Â  Make sure the three hinges line up. Â C

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Jerry,

 

 I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.

 Thanks for your input.

 

 --------

 Semper Fi,

 

 Terry Hand

 Athens, GA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg

 

 

 

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tkreiner

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 185
Location: Spring, TX

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:58 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry, 



 I agree with everyone else, you need to weld A tab to your stab.  



That said I'm not near a computer and I can't send you a good drawing file but if you will shoot me the diameter of the tubing, I'll model it up in the solid Works and send you both an isometric and a PDF of what the 1930s style tab would look like.



Tom

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Tom Kreiner

jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:53 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Tom,



I am not quite there yet, but I will contact you in the near future. Thanks for the offer.

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Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET
Guest

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:57 pm Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

I have attached a drawing of what I was talking about. Makes it all easy.

 

Jerry

Sky Classic

 

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles N. Campbell

Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 6:03 AM

To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

 

Terry, adding the tab (say .090 thick steel) to the tail post would make the hinge stick out .090 and would not line up with the two upper hinges.  I still think brazing would be the best answer.  Chuck

 

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>



Jerry,



I should have been more clear. Attached is a drawing that might make more clear the question. How do I attach the hinge to the tab. If I drill through the tail post, won't I be weakening it? Do I beef up the tail post. Maybe my drawing with the skills of a 7 year old might help explain.

Thanks for your input.



--------

Semper Fi,



Terry Hand

Athens, GA





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=469439#469439





Attachments:



http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8923_106.jpg



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taildrags

Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1611
Location: Medford, OR

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry; I knew you were building a steel tube fuselage but I sent out the full set anyway so you'd have an extra casting to practice on <hahahaha>



Keri-Ann and the others nailed it.  A tab it is!  I think if it were me, I would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to determine where your weld tab needs to be.  But you've already figured that out, I'm sure.

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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

jarheadpilot82

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 699
Location: Athens, GA

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Oscar,



That is pretty much how I envisioned doing that part of the build. So thanks for validating my plan of attack. And I can't wait to prep the hinges. They are going to look great!



Thanks for keeping the Kapler/Zuniga hinges available.

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Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Listen to Oscar!!! This is the right way to take care of this issue.



Clif

"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is 

noblest;

second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is 

the bitterest." (Confucius)





 	  Quote: 	
		   Keri-Ann and the others nailed it.  A tab it is!  I think if it were me, I 

 would build the vertical stab and rudder and install the top two aluminum 

 hinge pairs plus the rudder half of the lower one, then temporarily 

 install them and drop a piece of 3/16" rod down through all the hinges to 

 determine where your weld tab needs to be.  But you've already figured 

 that out, I'm sure.



 --------

 Oscar Zuniga

tkreiner

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 185
Location: Spring, TX

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:21 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Terry,



Since I haven't heard back regarding tube diameters, I thought I'd just post this pic so you may design your own hinges.  



As a Design Engineer, I'd use one of these at the top and one at the bottom with the curved portion of the tab pointing opposite each other.  (The center hinge may be oriented in either direction...)  That way, the rudder will be confined vertically (axially along rearmost vertical stabilizer tube).  



From what I can tell, this part is typically an assembly using a circular section  welded to the hinge pin tab.  In order to make that as an assembly, the rounded piece is to carry any axial load.  This prevents welds from shear loads.



Hope this helps.

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Tom Kreiner

aerocarjake

Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 447
Location: Issaquah, WA

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Re: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Hello good Piet-ple,



Been out of touch for a while yet still moving forward nicely on my project.



Terry, here is a photo of my tailpost hinge prior to welding. I can't find a good photo of that specific area after welding...?!?!?  The three rudder hinges line up real well yet you have to be very careful to always mount the horizontal stabilizer with the same number of washers/shims so the three rudder hinges are spaced properly. 



I've been working on my center section for the past many months. There are some details that are taking more time than normal but "anything worth doing is worth over-doing...!!!!"



Have fun with the adventure....!

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Jake Schultz - curator,
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jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: The Kapler/Zuniga hinge on a steel tube fuselage

Yes that is exactly what I was saying. That is the perfect way to do it.



Jerry

Sky Classic



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