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Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

 
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punchy(at)frontiernet.net
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake
assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete
assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be
also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob


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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

You need O.C. Baker's input.  He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1?  I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1


Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)


Located in Saint Johns, AZ ,  KSJN


Rob

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punchy(at)frontiernet.net
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

I guess I need to talk to OC.

 OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say:  the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob



On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:

Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input.  He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1?  I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1


Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)


Located in Saint Johns, AZ ,  KSJN


Rob

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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Hi Rob,

My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake
problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads
every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry
of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure
at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure
and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got
the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not
quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than
changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is
dramatic.

I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his
demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and
it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced
the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.

I would recommend giving them a call.

Tim
N52TY



--


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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

I guess I need to talk to OC.

OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob

On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:

Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob

====================================
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================




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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC

Sent from my iPad
---------------

On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
Quote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K

I guess I need to talk to OC.

OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob


----------------
Quote:

On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:

Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================







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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

6/26/2017

Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential


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Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 267
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Owen,
So sorry to hear that you are in the Hospital and my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery.
Bob Reed

From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1


6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC

Sent from my iPad
---------------

On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
Quote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K

I guess I need to talk to OC.

OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob


----------------
Quote:

On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:

Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
==== ============================== ==







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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 267
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Tim,
I never did understand the reasoning behind those original specifications for the Master Cylinders and especially the brake pedals themselves. I can't testify to how much difference it makes (YET) but I decided early on to replace my master cylinders and the rudder/brake pedals with something far more substantial. I know they are heavier but hey...I have lost 15 pounds which more than makes up for it.
Bob Reed

From: Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1


--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)>

Hi Rob,

My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake

problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads

every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry

of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure

at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure

and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got

the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not

quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than

changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is

dramatic.

I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his

demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and

it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced

the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.

I would recommend giving them a call.

Tim

N52TY



--


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

6/26/2017

On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.


Thanks.
Quote:

My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff.

I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.



If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
Quote:
I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.


That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
Quote:

I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.

Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove.

How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?


Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
Quote:

Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?


Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom.
Quote:

Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?


Yes, but see immediately above.
Quote:

I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older


Understand.
Quote:

Any help with question above would be appreciated.

Rob


OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
-------------------------
Quote:

On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:

Quote:
6/26/2017


Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.


OC


------------------------------


On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:


Quote:
6/27/2017


Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.


Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.


Please let me know if you have any questions.


OC

Sent from my iPad


---------------

On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:


Quote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K


I guess I need to talk to OC.

OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob




----------------
Quote:

On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:

Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1


Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)


Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN


Rob


====================================















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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert Reed



Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 267
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just 70. Wink)))
That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.

Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.


Bob Reed


From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1


6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:


OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.

Thanks.
Quote:
My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs. I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff. I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.


If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
Quote:
I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.


That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
Quote:
I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside. Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove. How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?


Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
Quote:
Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?


Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom.
Quote:
Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?


Yes, but see immediately above.
Quote:
I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older


Understand.
Quote:
Any help with question above would be appreciated. Rob


OC

PS: I am 84 years old.

-------------------------
Quote:
On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
Quote:


6/26/2017

Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.

OC

------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Quote:


6/27/2017

Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.

Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

OC Sent from my iPad

---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
Quote:


OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC. OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors Rob

----------------
Quote:
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1 Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated) Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN Rob ==== ============================== ==






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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Bob,

I've got you beat on the high temps here in the Phoenix area, 100 deg. + for the last two weeks. Fortunately I have younger friends that will get under the panel for me, I'm 74 and could get under the panel but not back out!

Get well OC,

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 2:08 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just 70. Wink)))


That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.





Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.




Bob Reed




From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1


6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:


OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.

Thanks.
Quote:
My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff.I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.


If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
Quote:
I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under thatpanel to reach the the master cylinders etc.


That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
Quote:
I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside. Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove.How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?


Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
Quote:
Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?


Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom.
Quote:
Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?


Yes, but see immediately above.
Quote:
I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older


Understand.
Quote:
Any help with question above would be appreciated.Rob


OC

PS: I am 84 years old.

-------------------------
Quote:
On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
Quote:


6/26/2017

Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.

OC

------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Quote:


6/27/2017

Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.

Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

OCSent from my iPad

---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
Quote:


OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RobSent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PMTo: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC. OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on theKIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotorsRob

----------------
Quote:
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
Quote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJNRob==== ===== ==






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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Bob,

I think it was one of the few misses on the KIS along with the original nose gear design. Although, I believe Rich flew the original design in his plane. I am sure he was a better pilot than me. Remember also, the original KIS power plant was the 80 HP Limbaugh which was lighter and slower than what most all other KIS planes have.

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:14 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

Tim,


I never did understand the reasoning behind those original specifications for the Master Cylinders and especially the brake pedals themselves. I can't testify to how much difference it makes (YET) but I decided early on to replace my master cylinders and the rudder/brake pedals with something far more substantial. I know they are heavier but hey....I have lost 15 pounds which more than makes up for it.


Bob Reed

From: Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1


--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)>



Hi Rob,



My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake

problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads

every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry

of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure

at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure

and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got

the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not

quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than

changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is

dramatic.



I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his

demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and

it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced

the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.



I would recommend giving them a call.



Tim

N52TY







--


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:54 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

On the subject of access to the brake master cylinders , I installed an
access panel in the underside of the fuselage , makes getting to the various
bolts and tubes , much easier
(See attached file: Dscf0225.jpg)


From: Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: 06/26/2017 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just
70. Wink)))

That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to
climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the
attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most
effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the
inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.

Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

6/26/2017

On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:

OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out
as soon as possible.

Thanks.

My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I
broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I
know about that stuff.

I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.

If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.

I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.

That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.

I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.

Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to
Grove.

How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?

Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.

Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?

Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS
landing gear legs at the bottom.

Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the
existing Matco master cylinders?

Yes, but see immediately above.

I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older

Understand.

Any help with question above would be appreciated.

Rob

OC

PS: I am 84 years old.

-------------------------

On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
6/26/2017

Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality
of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.

OC

------------------------------

On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

6/27/2017

Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.

Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

OC

Sent from my iPad

---------------

On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> wrote:

OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K

I guess I need to talk to OC.

OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing
matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob

----------------

On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes
and got much better results.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>
wrote:


Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco
brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the
complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on
my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned
would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
==== ============================== ==
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
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or in part) of its
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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 66
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:28 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

Keith, the pic didn't cone through. Could you please send again?

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

Quote:
On Jul 10, 2017, at 7:53 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

jpg


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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

You have to scroll all the way down past all messages to reach the pic.

Quote:
On Jul 10, 2017, at 10:28 AM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:



Keith, the pic didn't cone through. Could you please send again?

To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> On Jul 10, 2017, at 7:53 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>
> jpg





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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

I just get my skinny, 28yr old, A&P son-in-law to crawl down there and do the work for me while I have a beer. Smile

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 7:53 AM, <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:
Quote:
On the subject of access  to the brake master cylinders ,  I installed an
access panel in the underside of the fuselage , makes getting to the various
bolts  and tubes , much easier
(See attached file: Dscf0225.jpg)




From:       Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)>
To:         "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date:       06/26/2017 11:10 PM
Subject:    Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)



Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just
70.  Wink)))

That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to
climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls.  BUT, as the
attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way.  Not the most
effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the
inside.  My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.



Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.


Bob Reed


From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>; kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1

6/26/2017

On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:

OC, sorry to hear about hospital.  No fun there. Hope you get better and out
as soon as possible.

Thanks.

      My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I
      broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
      I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I
      know about that stuff.

      I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.

If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.

      I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
      panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.

That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.

       I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.

      Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to
      Grove.

      How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?

Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.

      Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?

Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS
landing gear legs at the bottom.

      Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the
      existing Matco master cylinders?

Yes, but see immediately above.

      I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older

Understand.

      Any help with question above would be appreciated.

      Rob

OC

PS: I am 84 years old.

-------------------------

      On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
6/26/2017

Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality
of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.

OC

------------------------------

On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:

6/27/2017

Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.

Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

OC

Sent from my iPad

---------------

On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:

OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

Tim

From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [
mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K

I guess I need to talk to OC.

 OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing
matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say:  the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors

Rob

----------------

      On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
            You need O.C. Baker's input.  He replaced his with Grove brakes
            and got much better results.

            On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
            wrote:
              --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>

              Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco
              brake assembly on the KIS TR1?  I am in need of replacing the
              complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on
              my 1997 KIS TR1


              Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned
              would be also appreciated)


              Located in Saint Johns, AZ ,  KSJN


              Rob


              ==== ===== ==








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content is not permitted.
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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 Reply with quote

7/10/2017

Hello Rob, You wrote: “I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can
handle that ok.”

And I wrote: “If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't
agree.”

See the two attached pictures to see how I solved the pedal problem. I
riveted two rather large pieces of aluminum angel to the front of the
original pedals. This provides a significant improvement in pedal leverage
and the resulting higher brake fluid pressure at the wheels.

The side angles make a perfect place to keep the outside edge of both shoes
against so that you know where your feet are with regard to the brake /
rudder pedals at all times.

OC

PS: I have had people in the left seat of my plane (only side that has
brakes) and when the engine started the plane just spun around like a top
with all left brake and no right brake. They had made the mistaken
assumption the pedals had to be straight ahead of the seat and just plunked
their feet down accordingly. The KIS TR-1 pedals however are not directly in
front of the seats, but instead are offset a bit toward the airplane center
line. This offset is caused by the cross rudder pedal bars being too short.


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