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bcone1381

Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Southeast Michigan

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: Newbe Question about getting started.

New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thru AeroElectric Connection for the second time.  Following Bob's recommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus and system schematics.



How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical system from my wire book? 



I had a thought.  Build a peg board mock up of my instrument panel and firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, then assemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse Blocks, diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors,  fuses, and what not. I could add the electrical accessories as I acquire them... Maybe acquiring a few products at OSH this year?   Seems like building a mock up is a good place to start help acquire the tools, and wiring skills.  In the end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, antennas, and finalize the wire bundles then bench test the whole system prior to installation.



Does this method seem prudent?  What have others done? 



Brooks Cone

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_________________
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build

kjashton(at)vnet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: Newbe Question about getting started.

Yes, that is a good approach but the big schnitzel to eat first is building the airplane.  Bob has published a great resource.  Avionics shops are usually happy to wire-up radios you buy from them.   I have wired three airplanes; for me just installing stuff and running wires works OK.



There are always things to figure out:  shields, comm mic hi, comm mic lo, crimp or solder D-subs, RG-400 vs RG-400A vs RG-58, etc, but with the internet, the answers are readily available.  Question is whether it is something you’d really like to learn and do.

-Kent

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 12, 2017, at 4:53 PM, bcone1381 <bcone1964(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thru AeroElectric Connection for the second time.  Following Bob's recommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus and system schematics.

 

 How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical system from my wire book? 

 

 I had a thought.  Build a peg board mock up of my instrument panel and firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, then assemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse Blocks, diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors,  fuses, and what not. I could add the electrical accessories as I acquire them... Maybe acquiring a few products at OSH this year?   Seems like building a mock up is a good place to start help acquire the tools, and wiring skills.  In the end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, antennas, and finalize the wire bundles then bench test the whole system prior to installation.

 

 Does this method seem prudent?  What have others done? 

 

 Brooks Cone

 

 --------

 Brooks Cone

 Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470950#470950

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: Newbe Question about getting started.

At 03:53 PM 7/12/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bcone1381" <bcone1964(at)gmail.com>



 New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thru AeroElectric Connection for the second time.  Following Bob's recommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus and system schematics.



 How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical system from my wire book? 



 I had a thought.  Build a peg board mock up of my instrument panel and firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, then assemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse Blocks, diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors,  fuses, and what not. I could add the electrical accessories as I acquire them... Maybe acquiring a few products at OSH this year?   Seems like building a mock up is a good place to start help acquire the tools, and wiring skills.  In the end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, antennas, and finalize the wire bundles then bench test the whole system prior to installation. 	


    As suggested . . . get the airplane built first . . .

    or at least mostly built. Check out exemplar airplanes

    at OSH, talk to the builders, join one or more Bearhawk

    forums.



    Find out what things make sense to assemble out

    of the airplane.  The peg board is used in production

    environments to great advantage for cookie-cutter

    airplanes. But know that most peg boards are

    designed around a harness that was built up in the

    airframe first then used as a model for duplication.



    Further, the board may be 'adjusted' several times

    before the installers offer to buy beers for the

    folks on the wire balcony. 



    Do the page-per-system wirebook. Wire each system one

    at a time . . . there are no 'complex' systems . . .

    after you've completed a dozen or so pages of wiring

    you find yourself all done.



    There is VERY little wiring associated with radios

    that is not concentrated in instrument panel area

    and again, on a radio-by-radio basis . . . pretty

    simple.



    Your biggest single asset is a line of communications

    with folks that have been-there-done-that. It's even

    better if you can see what they've done by looking at

    the airplane (osh again).



    But I cannot recommend purchasing any whippy products

    offered over the counter at OSH until your fellow builders

    have given the thumbs up for return-on-investment.



    Having been to osh perhaps 18 times, I can say that super-selling

    over the counters and digging through the super-garage-sale

    at the north end are problematic for the neophyte builder.



    The biggest bargain I ever purchased out of the Fly Market

    was a King KY-90, S/N 110 . . . probably built by hand in

    Ed King's farmhouse factory south of Olathe, KS. I think

    I paid $10 for it.



    The various Lists and Forums on the 'net are your best

    resources for data and advice. Your best resource for materials

    may just turn out to be eBay . . .



    Let's talk . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: Newbe Question about getting started.

 	  Quote: 	
		  How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical system from my wire book? 	


     Not nit picking here . . . but read chapter 17 again.

    

     There is no such thing as a 'safe' airplane, only low-risk

     and lower-risk airplanes. All airplanes are dangerous as

     hell in their ability to make your day very miserable.



     What does 'reliable' mean . . . nothing ever breaks? Won't

     happen. ASSUME that everything you bolt to your airplane

     is going to break.



     How will you KNOW that it has broken?



     If in flight, how does failure influence likely

     outcome of the flight?



     Can the failure be pre-flight detected?



     If loss of that feature raises your level of

     discomfort to unacceptable levels (too much

     risk) then what is your Plan-B for mitigating

     that failure?



     The lowest risk FLIGHT system is fabricated by a

     builder who understands systems sifted for high

     risk failure modes and flown by a pilot who is confident

     in the builder's decisions for crafting a FAILURE

     TOLERANT airplane.



 

   Bob . . .

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Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: Newbe Question about getting started.

I don't often offer my advice but I will on this one occasion since the original post was from an admitted newbie.

Don't buy any major components (Avionics, Engines, radios, props,  etc.) until you are ready to use them.

I have found thru very expensive experience to make an ordered list of small projects to be completed over a measured period of time.  I then review that list, determine the parts (if any) that are required and order them at that time.  I keep the time frame short for the list (1 month at most) and delay any major purchases until I know that I can't work around them.  Make your decisions on what you are going to use and build toward that but be flexible, so much is changing that you don't want to get caught with a lot of expensive equipment you will never use.

My advice is free but the experience that it is based on was very, very expensive.





Bob Reed



       From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Newbe Question about getting started.

  

 

  At 03:53 PM 7/12/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bcone1381" <bcone1964(at)gmail.com>



 New Guy here....I am building a Bearhawk Patrol, and reading thru AeroElectric Connection for the second time.  Following Bob's recommendations, I have started a "Wirebook" with a few Bus and system schematics.



 How do I bring together a safe and reliable aircraft electrical system from my wire book? 



 I had a thought.  Build a peg board mock up of my instrument panel and firewall with all the tubing that exists between the two, then assemble and wire all the switches, contractors, relays, Fuse Blocks, diodes, crow bars, D-sub connectors,  fuses, and what not. I could add the electrical accessories as I acquire them... Maybe acquiring a few products at OSH this year?   Seems like building a mock up is a good place to start help acquire the tools, and wiring skills.  In the end I suppose I could wire up the avionics, antennas, and finalize the wire bundles then bench test the whole system prior to installation. 	


    As suggested . . . get the airplane built first . . .

    or at least mostly built. Check out exemplar airplanes

    at OSH, talk to the builders, join one or more Bearhawk

    forums.



    Find out what things make sense to assemble out

    of the airplane.  The peg board is used in production

    environments to great advantage for cookie-cutter

    airplanes. But know that most peg boards are

    designed around a harness that was built up in the

    airframe first then used as a model for duplication.



    Further, the board may be 'adjusted' several times

    before the installers offer to buy beers for the

    folks on the wire balcony. 



    Do the page-per-system wirebook. Wire each system one

    at a time . . . there are no 'complex' systems . . .

    after you've completed a dozen or so pages of wiring

    you find yourself all done.



    There is VERY little wiring associated with radios

    that is not concentrated in instrument panel area

    and again, on a radio-by-radio basis . . . pretty

    simple.



    Your biggest single asset is a line of communications

    with folks that have been-there-done-that. It's even

    better if you can see what they've done by looking at

    the airplane (osh again).



    But I cannot recommend purchasing any whippy products

    offered over the counter at OSH until your fellow builders

    have given the thumbs up for return-on-investment.



    Having been to osh perhaps 18 times, I can say that super-selling

    over the counters and digging through the super-garage-sale

    at the north end are problematic for the neophyte builder.



    The biggest bargain I ever purchased out of the Fly Market

    was a King KY-90, S/N 110 . . . probably built by hand in

    Ed King's farmhouse factory south of Olathe, KS. I think

    I paid $10 for it.



    The various Lists and Forums on the 'net are your best

    resources for data and advice. Your best resource for materials

    may just turn out to be eBay . . .



    Let's talk . . .



 

     Bob . . .

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bcone1381

Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Southeast Michigan

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Newbe Question about getting started.

Thanks for all the advice.  I started scratch building the Bearhawk Patrol about three years ago, decided to abort that in favor of the kit last year at this time, and took delivery of the kit in March of this year.  The build is going well, and faster than I had anticipated.



Bob Nuckolls, Your concise advice as sound and I've read, and I take it seriously.  

THERE ARE NO COMPLEX SYSTEMS.....and 

NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE AIRPLANE...

ASSUME EVERYTHING...WILL BREAK, 

Craft a failure tolerant aircraft.

Have a plan B for mitigating failure.



Robert Reed, I hear you....Delay-Delay as long as I can.  NO plans for big purchases...and will heed the temptation.

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Brooks Cone
Bearhawk Patrol Kit Build

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