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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:27 am Post subject: WON'T START

Thanks Walt.  I won't attempt to speculate on the over priming, but because of the possibility of hydraulic lock from fuel I pull the prop thru about 3-4 times after each prime... even on thru flights.  JB

From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 5:51:57 PM

Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

   Hi Jon;

 The CJ primer is essentially identical to itâ€™s Russian counterpart.  It is the CJ fuel system that is different in that the Emergency fuel supply is provided by a hand operated wobble pump.   As a result there is no need for the second function of the primer unit (Emergency fuel pump).   With the simple addition of a jumper line (by the factory) connecting the two output ports it became an engine primer only from either side.  No, it does not change the output fuel quantity.

  Could be converted to work in the â€˜52 system by simply removing the jumper.

 After reading about Bill Dykes starting problems I wonder if over-priming may have something to do with it and if everyone involved is fully aware of the danger of hydraulic lock from that source.

 Walt

From: JON (jblake207(at)comcast.net)   Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 1:13 PM

 To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

   With all the discussion about the primer on a YAK... I have this question about the primer on the CJ:  How does rotating the primer counterclockwise or clockwise on a CJ differ?  I'd heard that clockwise doubles the amount of fuel...true?  JB

   From: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40  PM

Subject: Re: WON'T START

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com>

Update

Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright blue spark up to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think that is the problem. Cleaned all contacts inside the cap and points

So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above. How do I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is getting to the plugs?

Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty of gas coming out of intake drain after priming

Stumped!!!!!!!!

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473========================

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dabear

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: WON'T START

Pull the prop through about 9-12 times (3 bladed prop). 

       Then prime.     

Then Start.     



          

If you really want to get a work out...     

Pull the prop through     

Then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

Then start.     



       Either works if the engine is timed right and you haven't       over/under primed. 

          

 

       The engine should start after two blades have gone by or you have       done something wrong in the process/engine is not setup correct.Â        

          



          

Bear

          

     On 10/3/2017 8:26 AM, JON wrote:

     

     [quote]                Thanks Walt.Â  I won't attempt to speculate on the over           priming, but because of the possibility of hydraulic lock from           fuel I pull the prop thru about 3-4 times after each prime...           even on thru flights.Â  JB

         

         

         

         

         

                  From:           "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)

           To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

           Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 5:51:57 PM

           Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

           

           

                                       Hi Jon;

               Â 

               The CJ primer is essentially identical to itâ€™s                 Russian counterpart.Â                  It is the CJ fuel system that is different in that the                 Emergency fuel supply is                 provided by a hand operated wobble pump.Â Â  As a result                 there is no                 need for the second function of the primer unit                 (Emergency fuel                 pump).Â Â  With the simple addition of a jumper line (by                 the factory)                 connecting the two output ports it became an engine                 primer only from either                 side.Â  No, it does                 not                   change the output fuel quantity.

               

                                Could                   be converted to work in the â€˜52 system by simply                   removing the                   jumper.

               

                                Â 

               

               After reading about Bill Dykes starting problems I                 wonder if over-priming                 may have something to do with it and if everyone                 involved is fully aware of the                 danger of hydraulic lock from that source.

               Â 

               Walt

                                From:                 JON (jblake207(at)comcast.net)                                                         Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 1:13 PM

                     To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com)                     

                     Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

                   

                 

                 Â 

               

                                                   With all the discussion about the primer on a                     YAK... I have this question                     about the primer on the CJ:Â  How does rotating the                     primer counterclockwise                     or clockwise on a CJ differ?Â  I'd heard that                     clockwise doubles the amount                     of fuel...true?Â  JB

                   

                   Â 

                   Â 

                                      From:                     "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)

                     To:                     yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

                     Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40 PM

                     Subject: Re: WON'T START

                     Â 

                     --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200"                     <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)

                     Â 

                     Update

                     Â 

                     Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright                     blue spark up                     to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think                     that is the problem. Cleaned                     all contacts inside the cap and points

                     Â 

                     So, now I willÂ  check the plug gaps as noted above.                     How do                     I check to make sure the spark from the coil wire is                     getting to the plugs?

                     Â 

                     Don't think it's a fuel problem either, gets plenty                     of gas                     coming out of intake drain after priming

                     Â 

                     Stumped!!!!!!!!

                     Â 

                     Â 

                     Â 

                     

                     Read this topic online here:

                     Â 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473269#473========================

                     Â 

                     Â 

                     Â 

                   

                   Â 

                 

               

             

           

           

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javiercarrascob

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Virginia

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: WON'T START

Also is probably a good time to get a mech. Involve before you actually damage something 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

 [quote]  On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:41, dabear(at)damned.org

<dabear(at)damned.org> wrote:

        

Pull the prop through about 9-12 times (3 bladed prop).        Then prime.     

Then Start.     

          

If you really want to get a work out...     

Pull the prop through     

Then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

then prime one shot     

pull a blade     

Then start.     

       Either works if the engine is timed right and you haven't       over/under primed.           

        The engine should start after two blades have gone by or you have       done something wrong in the process/engine is not setup correct.                  

          

Bear               On 10/3/2017 8:26 AM, JON wrote:     

     [quote]                Thanks Walt.  I won't attempt to speculate on the over           priming, but because of the possibility of hydraulic lock from           fuel I pull the prop thru about 3-4 times after each prime...           even on thru flights.  JB         

                  

                  

                  From:           "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)           To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)           Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 5:51:57 PM           Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START                      

                                       Hi Jon;

                

               The CJ primer is essentially identical to itâ€™s                 Russian counterpart.                  It is the CJ fuel system that is different in that the                 Emergency fuel supply is                 provided by a hand operated wobble pump.   As a result                 there is no                 need for the second function of the primer unit                 (Emergency fuel                 pump).   With the simple addition of a jumper line (by                 the factory)                 connecting the two output ports it became an engine                 primer only from either                 side.  No, it does                 not                   change the output fuel quantity.

               

                                Could                   be converted to work in the â€˜52 system by simply                   removing the                   jumper.

               

                                 

               

               After reading about Bill Dykes starting problems I                 wonder if over-priming                 may have something to do with it and if everyone                 involved is fully aware of the                 danger of hydraulic lock from that source.

                

               Walt

                                From:                 JON (jblake207(at)comcast.net)                                                         Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 1:13 PM

                     To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com)                     

                     Subject: Re: Re: WON'T START

                   

                 

                  

               

                                                   With all the discussion about the primer on a                     YAK... I have this question                     about the primer on the CJ:  How does rotating the                     primer counterclockwise                     or clockwise on a CJ differ?  I'd heard that                     clockwise doubles the amount                     of fuel...true?  JB                   

                    

                    

                                      From:                     "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)                     To:                     yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)                     Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 2:52:40 PM                     Subject: Re: WON'T START                      

                     --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200"                     <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com> (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)                      

                     Update                      

                     Checked spark at ignition coil wire, great bright                     blue spark up                     to 1/2 inch away from engine block so don't think                     that is the problem. Cleaned                     all contacts inside the cap and points                      

                     So, now I will  check the plug gaps as noted above

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Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Update



Followed the starting procedure found in "the Definitive Pilots Operating Handbook" which is in part a translation of the Russian Handbook



Basically, one prime pump for every 10 degrees below 100 degrees C

So, this morning it was 68 degrees with an overnight low of 48



8 prime pumps while turning the prop, got in the plane, primed the system side 4 times, fired up immediately! Took 2 people but worth it



I also followed one of the responders suggestion to gap the plugs to .018



So, that would suggest to me that it is not a serious timing or bad component problem, more likely a fuel/air mixture, cold engine issue



Thanks to all

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LawnDart

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 64

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: WON'T START

How was your last compression test(s)?

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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: WON'T START

Last year on a particularly chilly California morning, (yes, we do have them) I had a terrible time starting my M-14P.Â  So seeking wisdom from the fount of all M-14P knowledge, I called Vladimir Yastremski in hopes of learning some crafty technique.



Upon hearing my problem, Vlad sighed wearily, "Bleetz, vat can I say? It'z pilot error. Book saz, below 53 degrees must preheat oil. Buy heating pads for sump and oil tank. Problem solved."

I did and it was.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)hotmail.com (billdykes52(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Update

 

 Followed the starting procedure found in "the Definitive Pilots Operating Handbook" which is in part a translation of the Russian Handbook

 

 Basically, one prime pump for every 10 degrees below 100 degrees C

 So, this morning it was 68 degrees with an overnight low of 48

 

 8 prime pumps while turning the prop, got in the plane, primed the system side 4 times, fired up immediately! Took 2 people but worth it

 

 I also followed one of the responders suggestion to gap the plugs to .018

 

 So, that would suggest to me that it is not a serious timing or bad component problem, more likely a fuel/air mixture, cold engine issue

 

 Thanks to all

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473308#473308

 

 

 

 

 

 

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... Blitz

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Rob Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: Berkshire, UK

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:40 am Post subject: Re: WON'T START

Also in the original manual it recommends, after cylinder priming, to wait for the fuel to vapourise for 1-2 minutes in summer & 4-5 in winter before starting from cold.



This pause makes it much more likely to fire up first time, as engines run on vapour not liquid, and the supercharger priming point is a long way from the cylinder heads.



Hence why pulling through per prime also helps as it provides a fresh impeller surface area to vapourise fuel from.



Don't forget to prime the system side again just before start, to purge any bubbles in the fuel system, as pressure carbs are akin to single point fuel injection systems in being intolerant of even momentary fuel pressure drops.



IMHO this is the most common cause of failed starts and the cheapest to fix 



Rob R.



 	  Bill1200 wrote: 	
		  Update



Followed the starting procedure found in "the Definitive Pilots Operating Handbook" which is in part a translation of the Russian Handbook



Basically, one prime pump for every 10 degrees below 100 degrees C

So, this morning it was 68 degrees with an overnight low of 48



8 prime pumps while turning the prop, got in the plane, primed the system side 4 times, fired up immediately! Took 2 people but worth it



I also followed one of the responders suggestion to gap the plugs to .018



So, that would suggest to me that it is not a serious timing or bad component problem, more likely a fuel/air mixture, cold engine issue



Thanks to all 	
 	  Code:

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