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Parallel fuel path around Facet pump

 
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pilot623(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Jim
N623JF


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ghf4986(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

Jim,

A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and they recommend a certain micron size. Unfortunately i can not tell you what it is from memory.

I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special check valve since it is low pressure.

I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after mounting the manifold in the engine compartment. From the manifold and jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the return to the tank.

The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.

Dennis Adams

Sent from an IPad

On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks


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rwilhelm(at)dc.rr.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

That is exactly what I did when I built mine 20 years ago, Jim. At that time there were some Facet pumps that could fail closed. Not so any more with the newer ones. So they say.
I installed a very low crack pressure check valve in the circuit you described. 3/8 tube size. I had one from when I worked for a company that made them. I am sure you can buy one from ebay. Make sure it is aircraft and not auto or industrial. They don’t make them with very low crack pressure (8 “ water max) and zero leakage in the check direction.

Ray

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From: Jim Fillman (pilot623(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:10 PM
To: Pulsar-Aviators(at)yahoogroups.com (Pulsar-Aviators(at)yahoogroups.com); pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump


Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Jim
N623JF


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paqs345(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.

One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.
Sonja
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.
 
Jim
N623JF



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FoesFlyDennis



Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Mesa, Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345(at)gmail.com (paqs345(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.

One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.
Sonja
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.
 
Jim
N623JF




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2012 Pulsar III - Jabiru 2200A - N852LW
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Mesa, Arizona
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ghf4986(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

Its vapor pressure, no pressure, no vapor!

Sent from an IPad

On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Dennis Tubbs <dennistubbs7(at)gmail.com (dennistubbs7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Thanks Sonja, for sharing your experience here. Other comments had be concerned what might happen if my Facet pump failed.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Sonja Englert <paqs345(at)gmail.com (paqs345(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
My Facet fuel pump failed this year, but all that happened was that it did not pump fuel anymore when turned on. Fuel would still flow through it. I do not have a bypass.

One note on vapor return lines: they may do exactly what they are called, return vapor. It would be stupid to return vapor to anywhere but the top of the tank.
Sonja
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Jim
N623JF




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rwilhelm25(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

Please be advised that the crack pressure of the ASP check valve is not listed. If it is not less then 8 inches of water, do not use it. The high crack pressure of typical Check Valve will cause the engine driven pump to vapor lock the first time it is needed at high temps and altitude. Especially with auto gas. You do not want the pump to have to suck against the typical 2 psi crack pressure. Neither do you want it to leak at all in normal operation. It is like your heart with a very bad murmur. The Facet pump will just be putting the fuel back to its own inlet.

Ray

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dennis Adams (ghf4986(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:36 PM
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump


Jim,


A couple of things, the Facet fuel pump requires a fuel filter upstream and they recommend a certain micron size. Unfortunately i can not tell you what it is from memory.



I bypassed the pump with a couple of tees and a check valve, no special check valve since it is low pressure.

 

I bought a manifold and jet from Spruce and re-routed the fuel lines after mounting the manifold in the engine compartment. From the manifold and jet i ran a line to the upside of the fuel selector switch, no need to run the return to the tank.



The return is primarily to stop vapor lock.



Dennis Adams
Sent from an IPad
On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jim Fillman <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Since the fly-in, I’ve been mulling the issue that caused the loss of Bob Heiser’s Pulsar since all fuel in my plane flows through the Facet auxiliary fuel pump. In trying to visualize what a parallel path would look like, I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine. Am I thinking this correctly? Can anyone offer a specific recommendation for the check valve? Is a check valve really needed? I have no fuel return to the tanks.

Jim
N623JF


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w7ikt(at)fly-web.us
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Parallel fuel path around Facet pump Reply with quote

I have seen diagrams just like you describe.  That is the way I would do
it if i built or owned another low wing.
On 10/03/2017 02:10 PM, Jim Fillman wrote:
Quote:
I picture Tees on the upstream and downstream sides of the Facet with
a check valve that only allows fuel to flow towards the engine

--
God Bless,
Bob W7IKT & Carol N5CBQ HeiserI


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