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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Does anyone have a firm recommendation for an ELT that is light and has its own GPS?

Many thanks
Will


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italianjon



Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

Hi Will,

I just went through this exercise.

I settled on the Kannad 406. It's not the cheapest but the reliability data won me over.

With the whip antenna you can install it within the fuzz so there's no sticking out bits adding drag.

Best

Jon


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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Excellent thanks

William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Oct 24, 2017 3:33 AM, "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)>

Hi Will,

I just went through this exercise.

I settled on the Kannad 406. It's not the cheapest but the reliability data won me over.

With the whip antenna you can install it within the fuzz so there's no sticking out bits adding drag.

Best

Jon




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Ivor



Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
If you have a PLB clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
Just my two pennies worth!


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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Hmmm thanks the very same thought had occurred to me.

In Colombia I am not required to have anti collision or navigation lights or an ELT.  However I plan to re register my aircraft in the USA when I get there and so I am getting ready for compliance in the USA where both are required, as I understand it.
Also I haven't decided on my route.  Essentially there are or were three options.
1.  Right:  Over venezuela to trinidad and then up the islands.  Until venezuela began suffering "issues"  this was the preferred route.  Both relatively quick and fun. 
2.  Middle:  BOG Santa Marta, Curacao, Santo Domingo.  This is 350nm over sea.  Fast but 350 miles over the sea....hmmmm
3.  Left - up Central America.    This has 100m over the Darien Gap which is tall jungle.  to Ditch in the jungle is probably as dangerous if not more so than sea.  So I figure an ELT might be useful in this case.
I am researching....

William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744

On Oct 24, 2017 11:22 AM, "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)>

And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
Just my two pennies worth!




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Fred Klein



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

…I’d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-tech…I'd vote for a publicly-supported “bread crumbs” monitoring system…

Quote:
On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:



And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
If you have a PLB clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
Just my two pennies worth!




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Fred Klein



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

…I’d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-tech…I'd vote for a publicly-supported “bread crumbs” monitoring system…

Quote:
On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:



And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
If you have a PLB clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
Just my two pennies worth!




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836











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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Hello Ivor,
how about have them both? Cheers, Raimo Toivio


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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

I concur Fred,

I fly with the iridium delorme (now garmin) tracker/texting/plb and it works great (anywhere in the world). I also strap on a very small plb on my leg in case i need to bail Smile

Who needs elt's that typically break their antennas in serious crashes anyway?
Quote:
On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:



…I’d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-tech…I'd vote for a publicly-supported “bread crumbs” monitoring system…

> On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
> If you have a PLB clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
> Just my two pennies worth!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

But arent elt obligatory in the usa?Will
On Oct 24, 2017 20:15, "Pete" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

I concur Fred,

I fly with the iridium delorme (now garmin) tracker/texting/plb and it works great (anywhere in the world). I also strap on a very small plb on my leg in case i need to bail Smile

Who needs elt's that typically break their antennas in serious crashes anyway?


> On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
>
> …I’d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-tech…I'd vote for a publicly-supported “bread crumbs” monitoring system…
>
>> On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)> wrote:
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)>
>>
>> And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,
>> If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely
>> Just my two pennies worth!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

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Ivor



Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote:
Hello Ivor,
how about have them both? Cheers, Raimo Toivio

Hi Raimo
absolutely no problem having both except cost and additional weight,
If the regulations allow an PLB instead of an ELT that's the way i would go.

Cheers

Ivor


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pestar



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

Have a look at Emerging Lifesaving Technologies 406 ELT with internal GPS. this what I used for my MCR-4S. It does not have a whip antenna but a blade antenna so is less likely to be snapped off in an accident. This blade antenna also works in the 90 degree and 180 degree azimuth as aeroplanes do not necessarily land the correct way up in an accident. A whip antenna will not do this.

Aircraft spruce have them; http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/aircraftspruceelt.php . I researched all available ELT's with GPS and chose this one.

Cheers Peter


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John Wighton



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

I like the thumbnail of Peter's panel - almost IMAX standards of presentation!!

Seriously, l also chose the Kannad 406 ELT with an external blade antenna matched to it by ADAMS. I still have the whip antenna if somebody wants it.

It uses a remote switch on the panel, sits under the baggage bay on the P2 side. It gets cycled each year as part of the Europa XS pre-permit maintenance and has, so far (6-7 years) proven to be 100% reliable.

I also carry a PLB in y flight bag.

Regards
John


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Ivor,

cost for PLB is really marginal as well as it´s weight

(take same weight away from you by leaving every-week-hamburger off so
no weight penalty and you save money for PLB in a year).

Notice you may carry PLB always omboard - could be a life saver when
walking from the pub home...

Cheers, Raimo
Ivor kirjoitti 25.10.2017 klo 14:47:
Quote:

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote:
> Hello Ivor,
> how about have them both? Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Hi Raimo
absolutely no problem having both except cost and additional weight,
If the regulations allow an PLB instead of an ELT that's the way i would go.

Cheers

Ivor


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italianjon



Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: ELT Reply with quote

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact.
It´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation

(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
What´s a typical accident? It´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(that´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and that´s why I have no Turbo),

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour). 

I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isn´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
The fastest Europa ever build
(and only 4-seater)


allekirjoitus (info(at)rwm.fi)
italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:

Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact.
Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers, Raimo Finland OH-XRT The fastest Europa ever build (and only 4-seater)

italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world.

Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.

Really, all the  pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!

(which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).

For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel.
To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!!
Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb.

So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).

David, I´m pretty sure You get it!

Go on! I know you can have your burst!

Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?

***
About me /my status:

- my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
- my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago
- my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
- my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.

David,
pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!

Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.

Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland

(info(at)rwm.fi) davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:

Quote:

 
Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
   Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us  (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
    Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
   

On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact.
It´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
What´s a typical accident? It´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(that´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and that´s why I have no Turbo),
but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour). 
I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isn´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
The fastest Europa ever build
(and only 4-seater)

 
italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097




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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.
Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards, David
PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK!


On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB), ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world. Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think. Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!! (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere). For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel. To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!! Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb. So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster). David, Im pretty sure You get it! Go on! I know you can have your burst! Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind? *** About me /my status: - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 * - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again. - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here. David, pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away! Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so. Raimo OH-XRT Finland davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
Quote:


Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact.
Its easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
Whats a typical accident? Its during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(thats potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thats why I have no Turbo),
but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when its easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isnt it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers, Raimo Finland OH-XRT The fastest Europa ever build (and only 4-seater)

italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097




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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Duncan McFadyean



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: ELT Reply with quote

Was there any resolution as to why, after G-BYSA 'landed' in the North Sea coast and set-off its PLB, nobody ever came?
I appreciate that most alerts (particularly in a marine environment) are false alarms, but are alerts screened in this way?
Duncan McF.


Quote:
----Original Message----
From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk
Date: 02/11/2017 09:09
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Re: Re: ELT


Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.
Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards, David
PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK!


On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),
ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world.

Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.

Really, all the pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!

(which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).

For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel.
To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!!
Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb.

So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).

David, I´m pretty sure You get it!

Go on! I know you can have your burst!

Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?

***
About me /my status:

- my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *
- my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago
- my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.
- my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.

David,
pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!

Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.

Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:
Quote:


Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits.
Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ


On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:
Quote:

Hi Jon,
I do agree.
One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact.
It´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation
(when trying to survive out from your disaster).
What´s a typical accident? It´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless!
PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote
(that´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).
I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands.
Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and that´s why I have no Turbo),
but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory.
So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...
(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).
I would like to say:
ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...
(isn´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,
Raimo
Finland
OH-XRT
The fastest Europa ever build
(and only 4-seater)


italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:
Quote:
Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry.

For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.

With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.

I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097





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