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Ice prevention on fuel vent
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dan(at)syz.com
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Hi everyone.

I'm about to do my first annual on the RV-10 and during the past year of flying, I've come up with a few slight changes/improvements I'm thinking of doing while I'm at it.

One thing I'm wondering about is the potential for icing on the fuel air vent. Not that I have any intention whatsoever of ever coming close to known icing conditions, but it's those unexpected conditions that sometimes get you. Van's suggests (and I implemented) the alternate air door in the air box for that reason. But in looking closely at the two fuel vents, it seems that they would be very prone to ice buildup if ever in conditions conducive to it.. and especially since the vent 45 cut is angled forwards into the airstream. It seems to me that if those vents were to plug with even a small amount of ice, the clock would start ticking down quickly to fuel starvation. And I could see ice building plugging up those vents far before it would the air filter.

I've heard/read of a few things people have done to their fuel vents to mitigate this - a check valve in the wing root that opens if a bit of suction appears in the vent, a small "bypass hole" drilled in the vent line on the trailing edge of the line or possibly in the wing root, or a little "shroud" in front of the vent line externally to have ice build up on that instead of the vent. I'm here to see if anyone has opinions on what might be the best way to deal with this (or if I'm worrying about nothing).

I do have to wonder exactly why the vent is external to the wing root in the first place - if it were in the wing root, it would be mostly protected from ice buildup, and surely enough air would get into the root area through the various cracks around the fairings. Though I suspect that the positive pressure it sees external to the wing oriented as it is does help with fuel flow..

Suggestions?

Dan
---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 833
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

If you put the vent in the wing root, then after you top off the tank and park in the sun, the gas will expand - and pour gas into the wing root, if that’s where the vent is.
I used Tim Olsen’s method - check valve to aux vent in the wing root, only opens if there’s negative pressure.


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rvdave



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Here you go Dave.

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
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rvdave



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

That was too easy Phil, looks just right.

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rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

I'm surprised that Tim O hasn't jumped in yet but he describes how to add a one way valve into the ventilation system; he used a valve from McMaster-Carr.
Fuel Vent Ice Protection
Best wishes to all,
Rodger
in NW Oz where icing will never be a problem!
Fuel Vent Ice Protection


On Thursday, 23 November 2017, 22:42, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:



And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp;--> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<===============================






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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Thank you Rodgerand Tim
Now to order the hardware...
Thanks
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 15:27, Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk (rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk)> escreveu:
Quote:
96<![endif]-->I'm surprised that Tim O hasn't jumped in yet but he describes how to add a one way valve into the ventilation system; he used a valve from McMaster-Carr.
Fuel Vent Ice Protection
Best wishes to all,
Rodger
in NW Oz where icing will never be a problem!
Fuel Vent Ice Protection


On Thursday, 23 November 2017, 22:42, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:



And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Carlos,

It's installed by putting a "T" fitting where there vent exits the tank.   One leg goes down as usual and pokes out the bottom fairing.  The other leg goes to the check valve and never exits the wing root.
The orientation of the valve has to be such that air can pass through the valve in the direction of the tank (obviously).
The idea is that when the primary vent unknowingly becomes blocked (ice, bugs, etc), the check valve will open and allow venting from the wing root.   As the fuel pump sucks the fuel out of the tank, the pressure drops inside the tank, and that is what opens the vent without any intervention on your part. 
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:
And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?

Carlos 

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<====================================================sp; --> htt=;           - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp;        - List Contribution Web S;                   -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================








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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Thank you Philip

CT

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Phillip Perry
Enviada: Thursday, November 23, 2017 3:52 PM
Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent

Carlos,


It's installed by putting a "T" fitting where there vent exits the tank. One leg goes down as usual and pokes out the bottom fairing. The other leg goes to the check valve and never exits the wing root.



The orientation of the valve has to be such that air can pass through the valve in the direction of the tank (obviously).



The idea is that when the primary vent unknowingly becomes blocked (ice, bugs, etc), the check valve will open and allow venting from the wing root. As the fuel pump sucks the fuel out of the tank, the pressure drops inside the tank, and that is what opens the vent without any intervention on your part.







On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:

And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?


Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:

Here you go Dave..


http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp; --> htt=; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<===============================







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rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

My pleasure

On Friday, 24 November 2017, 0:28, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> wrote:



Thank you Rodgerand Tim
Now to order the hardware...
Thanks
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 15:27, Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk (rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk)> escreveu:
Quote:
96<![endif]-->I'm surprised that Tim O hasn't jumped in yet but he describes how to add a one way valve into the ventilation system; he used a valve from McMaster-Carr.
Fuel Vent Ice Protection
Best wishes to all,
Rodger
in NW Oz where icing will never be a problem!
Fuel Vent Ice Protection


On Thursday, 23 November 2017, 22:42, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:



And where and how is this installed in the fuel vent?

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 23/11/2017, às 13:20, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp; --> htt=; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<===============================













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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2760

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then.   This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines.  It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


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<========================================================







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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Is there any reason you can just use a free flow check valve? If the vent iced over it freely sucks air through the check valve. If the fuel expands and starts coming out the vent, there would not be ice there to start with because of the temperature.

Jesse SaintSaint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 24, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================










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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:56 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Tim

In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.
Will this work for this application?
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================










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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2760

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:01 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

If it says 0 psi I would say that is excellent and should be great.
Tim

On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:
Tim

In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.
Will this work for this application?
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2760

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

I should have read again before replying... darn.
That check valve will work fine, as would any free flow valve, but, the other down side is your fuel vents are 1/4” tubing and that particular valve uses 3/8” fittings, so you will need to buy additional adapters to fit it in, which may require a little more creativity in mounting. At $27.50 it isn’t super cheap either but looks like good quality. I don’t remember what I paid, but it would be worth checking out what other valves you can find because if you can find one that is 1/8” NPT it may be easier to adapt. That said, mine is brass and is probably heavier than this one is too.
Tim

On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:
Tim

In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.
Will this work for this application?
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================












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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Yes. 0 psi on the valve to break it out.

I have a pair sitting in a box that I haven’t installed yet and can play with them to see how they behave. But 0 psi is what they claim for breakout and 20 psi max pressure.
It also mentions that the valve can be installed in any orientation.
[img]cid:A7C7F840-FF62-408C-A15B-0B245CE6B01B[/img]

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:
Tim

In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.
Will this work for this application?
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================












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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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jbaer(at)LititzPP.com
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

Keep in mind that a 1 PSI pressure (or vacuum) over a 12” X 12” surface area produces 144 pounds of force. Would you stand on your tank? Be careful which check valve you use.
J
John Baer
Lititz Precision Products LLC
Lititz PA USA
www.LititzPP.com
Cell (EST USA) (717) 413-7931
Skype: John.Baer7712
From: <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>
Reply-To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday, November 24, 2017 at 7:56 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent


If it says 0 psi I would say that is excellent and should be great.
Tim

On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:
Tim

In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.
Will this work for this application?
Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:
Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim


On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:

Quote:
Here you go Dave..

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:


Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455


<====================================================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<========================================================












- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
rene(at)felker.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

  1. I went with the micro hole in the tube.  Yes, loose a little positive pressure, maybe, but KISS applies.
  2. I do not know how to calculate the pressure left in the tank during fuel burn with a clogged tube, but I know it is based on total air volume and a perfect seal with the gas cap.  So how long would it take to get to .5 or .3 PSI? If someone knows and likes doing that type of thing it would be interesting to calculate and build a graph.  Is pressure (vacuum) directly proportional to volume?  E.g. as the fuel is pump the air fills in the volume.  So the last gallon has a lesser affect than the first gallon.  It could be interesting to see.  Also, how big would the check valve or micro hole really need to be.  When would the mechanical fuel pump begin having problems pulling the fuel out of the tank……etc all questions that come to mind.


I went KISS.  And after 10 years (almost) of flying my -10 I have learned that a little bit of completely has a long term cost.  I mod my airplane every year it seems and I like doing it…..but I hate HAVING to do maintenance before the next flight.

(KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid)

Now, back to work so I can take tomorrow off and fix my Navworx problem.  Thank you to all the guys who did the work on the AMOCs.  Ralph Capen and Bob Leffler in particular in my case.

Rene'
801-721-6080


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Baer
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2017 7:36 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent

Keep in mind that a 1 PSI pressure (or vacuum) over a 12” X 12” surface area produces 144 pounds of force. Would you stand on your tank? Be careful which check valve you use.



J



John Baer

Lititz Precision Products LLC

Lititz PA USA

www.LititzPP.com

Cell (EST USA) (717) 413-7931

Skype: John.Baer7712



From: <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>
Reply-To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday, November 24, 2017 at 7:56 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent



If it says 0 psi I would say that is excellent and should be great.

Tim
On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:

Tim


In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.

Will this work for this application?



Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:

Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim
On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Quote:

Here you go Dave..


http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<===============================








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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Ice prevention on fuel vent Reply with quote

By the way, Tim and all the experts in this forum

If the conditions create ice in the tip of the tube (which is in the air stream), why does it nor create ice inside the wing cavity as well?
Is it because the ice is created not only by the air temperature, but also by the positive dynamic pressure in the vent tube tip?

Wondering minds want to know …

Thanks
Carlos

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Tim Olson
Enviada: Friday, November 24, 2017 1:02 PM
Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Assunto: Re: Re: Ice prevention on fuel vent

I should have read again before replying... darn.

That check valve will work fine, as would any free flow valve, but, the other down side is your fuel vents are 1/4” tubing and that particular valve uses 3/8” fittings, so you will need to buy additional adapters to fit it in, which may require a little more creativity in mounting. At $27.50 it isn’t super cheap either but looks like good quality. I don’t remember what I paid, but it would be worth checking out what other valves you can find because if you can find one that is 1/8” NPT it may be easier to adapt. That said, mine is brass and is probably heavier than this one is too.

Tim
On Nov 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
Quote:

Tim


In the Q+A for this ACS valve, at the Aircraft Spruce website, it says that this valve breakout pressure is 0 psi.

Will this work for this application?



Carlos
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 24/11/2017, às 05:12, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> escreveu:
Quote:

Regarding that check valve...I just got around to looking at the link on this
Aircraft Spruce one, Phil.

I know you want one with a very very very low operating pressure (vacuum, actually).
If you get even a couple of psi that it takes to open the valve, your tank will
have probably imploded by then. This valve appears to be for fuel flow
return lines. It doesn't seem to give a spec.

I got a valve from McMaster Carr that had a cracking pressure of .3 psi.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090525/index.html

I can't say that the valve you linked to is bad, but I would just caution to
make sure that it's probably no more than 1psi of cracking pressure.
Any valve that takes more than that to operate may risk tank
collapse.

Tim
On 11/23/2017 7:20 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Quote:

Here you go Dave..


http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acscheckvalve.php?clickkey=6903




Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:57 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "rvdave" <rv610dave(at)gmail.com (rv610dave(at)gmail.com)>

I’ve been looking for a check valve where can you get one with low psi?

--------
Dave Ford
RV6 for sale
RV10 building
Cadillac, MI


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475455#475455
<===========================sp; --> htt==========================; - MATRONI; http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
==========================bsp; - List Contribution Web S; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
<===============================








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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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