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[Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

Jan sent me an email a few days ago asking this same question.   I remember back in the day that Desser was selling these tires and tubes and told him as much.  However, upon a close inspection of their Web Site, I could find no reference to same so   I suggested he ask the YAK List.  Who all tell him to go to Desser tire, but with no specifics.  



John mentions that he got a tire and tube from Desser for his YAK-55.  My question for John is this:  John, is this the proper Russian tire, is it mounted on a Russian wheel?  



The fact is that the YAK-50, the Sukhoi 26,29,31 all use the same wheel and tire.   I am not sure about the 55 because it can be a one off in a number of ways and it may not be the same one that is used on the 50, because the whole tailwheel design is different on a 55.  



That being said, I called Desser five minutes ago.  They could not come up with an answer, so they started asking around the office, and then came up and said: 



"Oh you need a 400x150  Six ply tire, part number AA454 and tube GL-4067 "   So I went and looked up that number.   The picture shows a RIBBED STANDARD TIRE.    This is very interesting since the Russian WHEELS had a segmented wheel with indents that fit into cut out indents in the tire itself, to prevent slippage of the tire to the wheel.   The Russian tires are not ribbed.  They are solid rubber rounded tires smooth.  They have molded segments to fit the wheel as I just described.  



So whatever Desser is  selling, it is not a copy of the Russian tire.   Will it fit on a Russian wheel?   It might.   And since it uses a tube, it would hold air.  Would it fit the wheel the way the Russians meant it to?  No way.    How safe, or unsafe would that be?  I don't know that either, but it's "Experimental" so whatever works is OK, right?   Well, not in Europe.   



Personally Jan, I would not purchase this tire and tube, unless you can come up with a wheel that it was meant to mount on, that fits the axle on your 50.   



Mark





--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

FYI - the 400 x 150 Tire is the same size as the NOSE tire on the Yak 52 

and CJ6. DEFINITELY NOT the Yak 50 tail wheel.



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 11/29/2017 4:07 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:

[quote] 



 Jan sent me an email a few days ago asking this same question.   I remember back in the day that Desser was selling these tires and tubes and told him as much.  However, upon a close inspection of their Web Site, I could find no reference to same so   I suggested he ask the YAK List.  Who all tell him to go to Desser tire, but with no specifics.



 John mentions that he got a tire and tube from Desser for his YAK-55.  My question for John is this:  John, is this the proper Russian tire, is it mounted on a Russian wheel?



 The fact is that the YAK-50, the Sukhoi 26,29,31 all use the same wheel and tire.   I am not sure about the 55 because it can be a one off in a number of ways and it may not be the same one that is used on the 50, because the whole tailwheel design is different on a 55.



 That being said, I called Desser five minutes ago.  They could not come up with an answer, so they started asking around the office, and then came up and said:



 "Oh you need a 400x150  Six ply tire, part number AA454 and tube GL-4067 "   So I went and looked up that number.   The picture shows a RIBBED STANDARD TIRE.    This is very interesting since the Russian WHEELS had a segmented wheel with indents that fit into cut out indents in the tire itself, to prevent slippage of the tire to the wheel.   The Russian tires are not ribbed.  They are solid rubber rounded tires smooth.  They have molded segments to fit the wheel as I just described.



 So whatever Desser is  selling, it is not a copy of the Russian tire.   Will it fit on a Russian wheel?   It might.   And since it uses a tube, it would hold air.  Would it fit the wheel the way the Russians meant it to?  No way.    How safe, or unsafe would that be?  I don't know that either, but it's "Experimental" so whatever works is OK, right?   Well, not in Europe.



 Personally Jan, I would not purchase this tire and tube, unless you can come up with a wheel that it was meant to mount on, that fits the axle on your 50.



 Mark





 --

jbsoar(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

Desser tire.Â  200x80 six ply tire.Â  Smooth.This fit fine on my 55, it should fit the 50 as well.

John B

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 FYI - the 400 x 150 Tire is the same size as the NOSE tire on the Yak 52 and CJ6. DEFINITELY NOT the Yak 50 tail wheel.

 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 [url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url]Â (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 

 On 11/29/2017 4:07 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:

 [quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 

 Jan sent me an email a few days ago asking this same question.Â  Â I remember back in the day that Desser was selling these tires and tubes and told him as much.Â  However, upon a close inspection of their Web Site, I could find no reference to same soÂ  Â I suggested he ask the YAK List.Â  Who all tell him to go to Desser tire, but with no specifics.

 

 John mentions that he got a tire and tube from Desser for his YAK-55.Â  My question for John is this:Â  John, is this the proper Russian tire, is it mounted on a Russian wheel?

 

 The fact is that the YAK-50, the Sukhoi 26,29,31 all use the same wheel and tire.Â  Â I am not sure about the 55 because it can be a one off in a number of ways and it may not be the same one that is used on the 50, because the whole tailwheel design is different on a 55.

 

 That being said, I called Desser five minutes ago.Â  They could not come up with an answer, so they started asking around the office, and then came up and said:

 

 "Oh you need a 400x150Â  Six ply tire, part number AA454 and tube GL-4067 "Â  Â So I went and looked up that number.Â  Â The picture shows a RIBBED STANDARD TIRE.Â  Â  This is very interesting since the Russian WHEELS had a segmented wheel with indents that fit into cut out indents in the tire itself, to prevent slippage of the tire to the wheel.Â  Â The Russian tires are not ribbed.Â  They are solid rubber rounded tires smooth.Â  They have molded segments to fit the wheel as I just described.

 

 So whatever Desser isÂ  selling, it is not a copy of the Russian tire.Â  Â Will it fit on a Russian wheel?Â  Â It might.Â  Â And since it uses a tube, it would hold air.Â  Would it fit the wheel the way the Russians meant it to?Â  No way.Â  Â  How safe, or unsafe would that be?Â  I don't know that either, but it's "Experimental" so whatever works is OK, right?Â  Â Well, not in Europe.

 

 Personally Jan, I would not purchase this tire and tube, unless you can come up with a wheel that it was meant to mount on, that fits the axle on your 50.

 

 Mark

 

 

 

 

 --

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

Hi Mark;



The tire number you received from Desser (400 X 150) is the nose wheel tire 

for the CJ6 (and Yak 52?).  Inch dimensions approx. 6 X 14.7.



Cheers;

Walt

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

John, you might read what I posted about the size and shape of the Russian tire on the YAK-50, and Sukhoi 26,29,31 model aircraft.



Jan, in reference to your question, I called Desser and they gave me incorrect information (as per Dennis's post).  They do not list a tail wheel tire for 50, or the Sukhoi tail draggers which DO use the same tail wheel.



Before you go out and purchase a tire per John's suggestion, please have Desser send you a picture of the tire first.  I really have zero experience with the YAK-55 tail wheel.   It might use the same one or it might not.  However, I am 99% certain that they have no exact replacement, which you would need in your country.



Mark



________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of John B [jbsoar(at)gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:43 PM

To: Yak-List Digest Server

Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



Desser tire.  200x80 six ply tire.  Smooth.

This fit fine on my 55, it should fit the 50 as well.

John B



On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net<mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:




FYI - the 400 x 150 Tire is the same size as the NOSE tire on the Yak 52 and CJ6. DEFINITELY NOT the Yak 50 tail wheel.



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182<tel:334-546-8182> (mobile)

www.yak-52.com<http://www.yak-52.com>

Skype - Yakguy1



On 11/29/2017 4:07 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:




Jan sent me an email a few days ago asking this same question.   I remember back in the day that Desser was selling these tires and tubes and told him as much.  However, upon a close inspection of their Web Site, I could find no reference to same so   I suggested he ask the YAK List.  Who all tell him to go to Desser tire, but with no specifics.



John mentions that he got a tire and tube from Desser for his YAK-55.  My question for John is this:  John, is this the proper Russian tire, is it mounted on a Russian wheel?



The fact is that the YAK-50, the Sukhoi 26,29,31 all use the same wheel and tire.   I am not sure about the 55 because it can be a one off in a number of ways and it may not be the same one that is used on the 50, because the whole tailwheel design is different on a 55.



That being said, I called Desser five minutes ago.  They could not come up with an answer, so they started asking around the office, and then came up and said:



"Oh you need a 400x150  Six ply tire, part number AA454 and tube GL-4067 "   So I went and looked up that number.   The picture shows a RIBBED STANDARD TIRE.    This is very interesting since the Russian WHEELS had a segmented wheel with indents that fit into cut out indents in the tire itself, to prevent slippage of the tire to the wheel.   The Russian tires are not ribbed.  They are solid rubber rounded tires smooth.  They have molded segments to fit the wheel as I just described.



So whatever Desser is  selling, it is not a copy of the Russian tire.   Will it fit on a Russian wheel?   It might.   And since it uses a tube, it would hold air.  Would it fit the wheel the way the Russians meant it to?  No way.    How safe, or unsafe would that be?  I don't know that either, but it's "Experimental" so whatever works is OK, right?   Well, not in Europe.



Personally Jan, I would not purchase this tire and tube, unless you can come up with a wheel that it was meant to mount on, that fits the axle on your 50.



Mark





--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

Thanks Walt.   As I mentioned, they really were rather lost in space with the question to begin with.  



Mark

________________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Walter Lannon [wlannon(at)shaw.ca]

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:51 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: tires for tailwheel Yak 50






Hi Mark;



The tire number you received from Desser (400 X 150) is the nose wheel tire

for the CJ6 (and Yak 52?).  Inch dimensions approx. 6 X 14.7.



Cheers;

Walt

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

I guess I'll need to take pictures to explain what I am talking about.



Mark



________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Royden Heays [heaysr(at)telus.net]

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:51 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



I agree with John B



Desser have the 80 by 200 smooth tyre, which fits the Russian tailwheel (beautifully). Albeit, it’s hard to find on their website.



Regards



Royden

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:54 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



Dear all,



Finding tires (plus the inner tubes) for the Yak 50 tailwheel has become very difficult.

I think that the same tires are used for the Sukhoi aerobatic planes.

As far as I know, the Russian sources are dried up.



Does anyone on the list have an idea or any experience, maybe an address of a company that can make them?



Jan Mevis

Yak 50

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

Gents, there is nothing to agree with or disagree with here.



What I said is that Desser does not sell an exact replacement for the Russian tire.  I did not say that they did not have another tire that would mount on the wheel.   The assumption in a lot of cases is that every Yak aircraft is an Experimental Exhibition aircraft in the United States.  That of course is not the case, and the rules in a foreign country are not the rules that we have here.   This is why I was, and still am, cautious about suggesting to Jan (who does not live in the United States) that he put on any tire that happens to fit.  There is a difference between "it will fit on" and it is "an exact replacement".



To be specific, I have no doubt that Royden is correct and that the 80x200 smooth type tire will fit the wheel.  I also have no doubt that with a tube, the Russian wheel indentations will make no impact, since indeed this tire does not have a brake on it!   If Jan's inspectors are OK, with it, then it is good to go.   However, there is a chance that they will not.   And this is one of those cases where if he put that tire on there, and then for whatever reason there was an accident, questions might be asked if it were discovered.



Just for grins I will take pictures and send them to explain what I am making a (small) point of.



Mark



________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Royden Heays [heaysr(at)telus.net]

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:51 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



I agree with John B



Desser have the 80 by 200 smooth tyre, which fits the Russian tailwheel (beautifully). Albeit, it’s hard to find on their website.



Regards



Royden

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:54 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



Dear all,



Finding tires (plus the inner tubes) for the Yak 50 tailwheel has become very difficult.

I think that the same tires are used for the Sukhoi aerobatic planes.

As far as I know, the Russian sources are dried up.



Does anyone on the list have an idea or any experience, maybe an address of a company that can make them?



Jan Mevis

Yak 50

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

By the way, (Jan) the part number for the Desser tire is:  DTR1290   About $70.   



If I had nothing else, I would use it, just like these folks recommended.  But in so doing, I would also put a crayon mark on the tire and wheel and check for any slippage just to be sure.    



Mark

________________________________________

From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:58 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Cc: heaysr(at)telus.net; dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net; j.mevis(at)computer.org; jbsoar(at)gmail.com; wlannon(at)shaw.ca

Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



I have no idea if this picture will make it to the Yak-List, but it is sent individually to all who replied.  If anyone else is interested, let me know and I will forward it.



In the picture you can clearly see the inner rim of the tire, that has indentations that exactly match the opposite indentations in the Russian wheel itself.  I've never seen a design like this other than on Eastern Bloc aircraft.  The Desser tire (80x200 smooth) does not have this design.  It has a standard inner rim that is simply round and smooth.  Putting that tire (Desser) on the Russian wheel will result in uneven contact from the tire to the wheel itself.  What is the possible impact from that?   In the worst case scenario, when the tire contacts the runway and comes up to speed, it would slip on the wheel itself causing the tube to be pulled, and the inflation tube to be broken, thus flattening the tire.  That is the exact reason the Russians designed their wheels and tires the way they did.  The indentations on the tire that mate with the wheel make spinning the tire on the wheel well nigh impossible.   It is entirely possible that putting a smooth inner ring Desser tire on the Russian wheel would cause the tire to "form" to the Russian wheel simply by the pressure of the inner tube.  That would be the best case scenario.  The simple fact is that various people have put this tire on the Russian wheel (apparently) and nothing bad has happened yet!   So it is an Experiment.  And those with Experimental Exhibition aircraft really have nothing to worry about, more or less.



But the Desser tire is not a "perfect fit".  It is the same size yes, but the design of the Desser tire was not ,meant to go on a Russian wheel.



Mark

________________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD [mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil]

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:49 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50






Gents, there is nothing to agree with or disagree with here.



What I said is that Desser does not sell an exact replacement for the Russian tire.  I did not say that they did not have another tire that would mount on the wheel.   The assumption in a lot of cases is that every Yak aircraft is an Experimental Exhibition aircraft in the United States.  That of course is not the case, and the rules in a foreign country are not the rules that we have here.   This is why I was, and still am, cautious about suggesting to Jan (who does not live in the United States) that he put on any tire that happens to fit.  There is a difference between "it will fit on" and it is "an exact replacement".



To be specific, I have no doubt that Royden is correct and that the 80x200 smooth type tire will fit the wheel.  I also have no doubt that with a tube, the Russian wheel indentations will make no impact, since indeed this tire does not have a brake on it!   If Jan's inspectors are OK, with it, then it is good to go.   However, there is a chance that they will not.   And this is one of those cases where if he put that tire on there, and then for whatever reason there was an accident, questions might be asked if it were discovered.



Just for grins I will take pictures and send them to explain what I am making a (small) point of.



Mark



________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Royden Heays [heaysr(at)telus.net]

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:51 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



I agree with John B



Desser have the 80 by 200 smooth tyre, which fits the Russian tailwheel (beautifully). Albeit, it’s hard to find on their website.



Regards



Royden

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis

Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:54 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: tires for tailwheel Yak 50



Dear all,



Finding tires (plus the inner tubes) for the Yak 50 tailwheel has become very difficult.

I think that the same tires are used for the Sukhoi aerobatic planes.

As far as I know, the Russian sources are dried up.



Does anyone on the list have an idea or any experience, maybe an address of a company that can make them?



Jan Mevis

Yak 50

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: tires for tailwheel Yak 50

I do believe I can access that 200:80 ribbed tire out of china.  60 days

out.



Doug



On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:



[quote] I have no idea if this picture will make it to the Yak-List, but it is

 sent individually to all who replied.  If anyone else is interested, let me

 know and I will forward it.



 In the picture you can clearly see the inner rim of the tire, that has

 indentations that exactly match the opposite indentations in the Russian

 wheel itself.  I've never seen a design like this other than on Eastern

 Bloc aircraft.  The Desser tire (80x200 smooth) does not have this design

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