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How now to get lost ....

 
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kearney



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 545

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

Hi

I understand that ELTs have a less than stellar success rate in real world accidents. That being the case, I am considering the installation of a secondary system such as a SPIDERTRACKS.

Has anyone had experience with this or a similar locator system?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Merry Christmas

Les
C-GCWZ Flying
C-GROK Some assembly required


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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1120
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

Les,Is Canada going to invest in ADS-B at all? with sufficient ground stations, it works very well for getting track of missing aircraft, down to 1-200 ft
if there is enough coverage. We have achieved significantly better coverage than we have with radar.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:10 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

Hi

I understand that ELTs have a less than stellar success rate in real world accidents. That being the case, I am considering the installation of a secondary system such as a SPIDERTRACKS.

Has anyone had experience with this or a similar locator system?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Merry Christmas

Les
C-GCWZ Flying
C-GROK Some assembly required




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476583#476583






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dan(at)syz.com
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of ADS-B.. not only for radar services, but for SAR.

Canada's investment in ADS-B doesn't seem to be likely in the form of ground stations, at least in the near future. Instead, NavCanada is in a joint venture called Aireon to ultimately use ADS-B receivers on satellites to pick up position information anywhere on the globe (http://www.navcanada.ca/en/products-and-services/pages/on-board-operational-initiatives-ads-b.aspx).

If this ever actually happens, it would be great for finding ADS-B equipped planes that go missing. A pilot wouldn't have to worry about whether their ELT survives an accident - SAR could just start searching at the last broadcast ADS-B position and the plane shouldn't be far from there.

In the meantime, web sites like FlightAware help organize amateur ADS-B "feeder sites" to their data. A friend of mine operates several such sites as a "hobby" for a very minimal cost. Over time, coverage is getting better and better as more amateurs throughout the world join on board. Check their current coverage map at https://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage There's still lots of gaps in mountainous regions with low population, but it's pretty good in most areas with more people. And if Canada ever finalizes the details for global coverage via satellite it will be a game changer.

Though in a perfect world I'd love it if Canada were to follow the US initiative to provide traffic and weather via ADS-B In, beggars can't be choosers. I've had ADS-B out on my plane since the beginning (going to need it soon for flights into US transponder airspace anyway), and I've always been amazed at how well my flights have been tracked on FlightAware. I also just installed ADS-B In a week or so ago.. in Canada, until more and more aircraft support ADS-B out, it's only a partial solution for traffic since I only see ADS-B Out equipped aircraft. But something is better than nothing, and in the US I should be able to receive traffic targets for most aircraft in controlled airspace and free inflight weather to boot... I'm looking forward to a flight I'm hoping to do to the US in a week or two to test it out further.

Dan

Quote:
On 2017-Dec-18, at 7:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Les,
Is Canada going to invest in ADS-B at all? with sufficient ground stations, it works very well for getting track of missing aircraft, down to 1-200 ft
if there is enough coverage. We have achieved significantly better coverage than we have with radar.

-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:10 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:


Hi

I understand that ELTs have a less than stellar success rate in real world accidents. That being the case, I am considering the installation of a secondary system such as a SPIDERTRACKS.

Has anyone had experience with this or a similar locator system?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Merry Christmas

Les
C-GCWZ Flying
C-GROK Some assembly required




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476583#476583






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====================================





---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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kearney



Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 545

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

Hi Dan

What tech did you use for ADSB In/Out?

I was thinking of using Navworx when the time came but they seem to have gone sideways.

Cheers

Les


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1541
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

I too am a big fan of ADS-B, in spite of the cost.
No, I don't like the ability of anyone to track my tail number, but I
think that could be resolved.
I learned of a crash that occurred near Flagstaff AZ at night, where
ADS-B allowed the controller involved to know within seconds that the
plane track dropped an altitude readout, and the plane was located
within 600 ft of the end of the ADS-B track. It was an IFR departure,
and the plane was seen by ADS-B within a few seconds of liftoff.
Radar coverage in that area only goes down to about 2000 ft AGL and the
plane was never seen on radar. The wreckage was found within a couple
hours because of the good location info. Unfortunately the pilot and
sole occupant had apparently suffered a medical event and did not
survive. Final NTSB report will not come out for another 6 months or so.
I talked to the controller that worked the flight, and he was very
enthusiastic that the better coverage lets him handle traffic much
better than he ever could with just radar.
I have the Dynon 261 out unit and 470 In receiver that is fully
integrated on my Dynon Skyview PFD/MFD.

On 12/19/2017 12:23 AM, Dan Charrois wrote:
Quote:


I'm a big fan of ADS-B.. not only for radar services, but for SAR.

Canada's investment in ADS-B doesn't seem to be likely in the form of ground stations, at least in the near future. Instead, NavCanada is in a joint venture called Aireon to ultimately use ADS-B receivers on satellites to pick up position information anywhere on the globe (http://www.navcanada.ca/en/products-and-services/pages/on-board-operational-initiatives-ads-b.aspx).

If this ever actually happens, it would be great for finding ADS-B equipped planes that go missing. A pilot wouldn't have to worry about whether their ELT survives an accident - SAR could just start searching at the last broadcast ADS-B position and the plane shouldn't be far from there.

In the meantime, web sites like FlightAware help organize amateur ADS-B "feeder sites" to their data. A friend of mine operates several such sites as a "hobby" for a very minimal cost. Over time, coverage is getting better and better as more amateurs throughout the world join on board. Check their current coverage map at https://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage There's still lots of gaps in mountainous regions with low population, but it's pretty good in most areas with more people. And if Canada ever finalizes the details for global coverage via satellite it will be a game changer.

Though in a perfect world I'd love it if Canada were to follow the US initiative to provide traffic and weather via ADS-B In, beggars can't be choosers. I've had ADS-B out on my plane since the beginning (going to need it soon for flights into US transponder airspace anyway), and I've always been amazed at how well my flights have been tracked on FlightAware. I also just installed ADS-B In a week or so ago.. in Canada, until more and more aircraft support ADS-B out, it's only a partial solution for traffic since I only see ADS-B Out equipped aircraft. But something is better than nothing, and in the US I should be able to receive traffic targets for most aircraft in controlled airspace and free inflight weather to boot... I'm looking forward to a flight I'm hoping to do to the US in a week or two to test it out further.

Dan





> On 2017-Dec-18, at 7:31 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Les,
> Is Canada going to invest in ADS-B at all? with sufficient ground stations, it works very well for getting track of missing aircraft, down to 1-200 ft
> if there is enough coverage. We have achieved significantly better coverage than we have with radar.
>
> -sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:10 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I understand that ELTs have a less than stellar success rate in real world accidents. That being the case, I am considering the installation of a secondary system such as a SPIDERTRACKS.
>
> Has anyone had experience with this or a similar locator system?
>
> Inquiring minds need to know.
>
> Merry Christmas
>
> Les
> C-GCWZ Flying
> C-GROK Some assembly required
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476583#476583
> ====================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ====================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ====================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ====================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ====================================
>
>



---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213







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KCHD
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rene(at)felker.com
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

I have Navworx, but you are correct....the company went bye-bye.

I changed my GPS source to my 430 and all is good for me. I think there
will be some "old" units floating around that could be used and I am sure
you could pick them up cheap and continue the experiment.

Rene'
801-721-6080

--


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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 833
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

kearney wrote:
Hi Dan

What tech did you use for ADSB In/Out?

I was thinking of using Navworx when the time came but they seem to have gone sideways.

Cheers

Les


I would have guessed that, based in Canada, your best bet for future coverage in Canada would be with a 1090 MHz system. No one else in the world seems inclined to follow the US with a UAT based system.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: How now to get lost .... Reply with quote

For ADS-B out, It's done by my transponder (Dynon SV-XPNDR-261 which provides ADS-B out on 1090 ES when connected to an approved GPS like my GTN 650).

For ADS-B In, I've done that with a Stratux (stratux.me), a DIY dual frequency (1090 & 978 Mhz) receiver that decodes aircraft transmissions as well as FIS-B and TIS-B broadcasts (though the latter only exists in the US). It's connected by serial port to my AFS EFIS, and seems to work quite well actually... certainly a lot better than no traffic at all Smile

Though UAT (978 Mhz) is sufficient in the US, I decided on the 1090 ES transponder since if anywhere else in the world mandates ADS-B Out, they likely will be doing it at 1090 Mhz instead of 978. And 1090 is accepted in the US at all altitudes, and is required in class A (above 18000' MSL).

And yep - as of October 19th, Navworx is no more.

Dan

Quote:
On 2017-Dec-19, at 6:55 AM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



Hi Dan

What tech did you use for ADSB In/Out?

I was thinking of using Navworx when the time came but they seem to have gone sideways.

Cheers

Les




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476601#476601










---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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