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2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list?
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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 698
Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Oscar (and everyone else, of course),

The internet is often a great way to share information, hence this website, but it is often a poor place to communicate. The example I give to people is to type the words “Have a nice day.” Without inflection or a face to gauge the emotion of the message, those four words can either sound ‘snarky’ or sound like a heart-felt positive comment. And I think that is partly what happened here.

Does anyone remember the words “Head Curmudgeon”? For those new to the list - for a time (a long time) there were guys who thought it humorous to use the word curmudgeon about one of the experienced builders and flyers who participated in the forum. His comments were often of the “if it ain’t built like the original, you are building it wrong”. Many guys seemed to enjoy the humor and it was an inside joke, but in my opinion all it served was to put a negative tone to things. I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps and 30 years flying commercial jets, so I can drown out other people’s noise and personalities pretty easily, but I think the inside joking nature of it all made people feel like this forum was someone else’s “club”. That inside joke stuff would have been better to have been sent by email and kept off the forum because it added nothing for the rest of us who were not part of the “club”. Just my perception.

The other thing that I think turned people off was when a new guy would ask a question, somebody would invariably answer, “It’s in the archives. Look it up.” I appreciate what Matt Drake has done with this forum but I have to be honest and say, the design of the archives and the search function should not be his biggest bragging point. Searching is not easy to do. The search function is not, in my opinion, particularly user friendly. So I suspect that, after a number of “It’s in the archives. Look it up” comments, new members quit asking questions.

Also, I think the weakness of this format is that there is no moderator. At times in the past, there have been some personality issues between builders on this forum that became quite heated and, as we say in the South, right ugly. A moderator would have stopped that stuff from spilling onto the forum by doing just that - moderating. But with no moderator it just went on and on and I think people grew tired of that sort of drama.

So how do we fix things and continue to make this forum a valuable asset to builders? Simple. Post. Post questions, as they add to the energy of the list. Also, post by answering the questions. The questions are the seed, the answers are the water that cause knowledge to sprout up. Just make sure it is good info - iaw ac 43.13 and other standards. Third, post pictures of your work. Don’t be shy. That is the value of west coast Piet.com - the great photos there of so many great Pietenpols. It helps here as well.

Lastly, Pat Weeden has done a great job of saving an organization (one that almost collapsed in an amazingly short period of a couple of years) by taking over the reins of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association. We can all help in a similar way by committing to being active participants on his forum who post as well as encourage other builders and flyers.

Chuck, I know that this is long, but Oscar isn’t the only verbose writer on the forum. I am guilty as charged. But thanks to you for taking time to read it, as well as the rest of you.


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Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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simmor2



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 23
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

So, I review this list daily and read whats posted. I review all the posts on the Face book page as well as make updates on my FB page, Rich's Pietenpol build.
Too cold at the moment to do any assembly in Middle TN. (Separate garage from House)

As far as the list ending, it doesn't get posted to as often as it used to. It relies on the current fliers and builders to post to. FB is too easy compared to this list so that is whats active now.

What this list does do though is let you search past subject matter that has been posted to look for information. FB does not allow that as it does here. IF wee feed it, it will remain useful. It's up to all of us.

I'm sure Matt wont kill the list, it just isn't getting new information. Ill try and post my FB updates here in some form or fashion from here on out Even if its just a link to FB.

Currently building my ribs. I have 8 completed.

Building a digital test of a composite spar is near my future, modeling what J. Textor has done.IT is what I want to follow.

Happy building and one day to fly.

For now, enjoy flying my zenith!!

Rich Simmons
Middle TN


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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Terry, when I read the comment you directed to me, I thought the post was by taildrags, but when I scrolled down a little further I saw that it was from you.  I hope you realize that my comment to taildrags was posted in jest -- hence the "Hi".  Maybe that term is strictly a ham radio term.  Good hearing from you.  Hope you have a very nice, prosperous, and happy New Year (2018).   Chuck 
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 8:21 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Oscar (and everyone else, of course),

The internet is often a great way to share information, hence this website, but it is often a poor place to communicate. The example I give to people is to type the words “Have a nice day.” Without inflection or a face to gauge the emotion of the message, those four words can either sound ‘snarky’ or sound like a heart-felt positive comment. And I think that is partly what happened here.

Does anyone remember the words “Head Curmudgeon”? For those new to the list - for a time (a long time) there were guys who thought it humorous to use the word curmudgeon about one of the experienced builders and flyers who participated in the forum. His comments were often of the ‘if it ain’t built like the original, you are building it wrong”. Many guys seemed to enjoy the humor and it was an inside joke, but in my opinion all it served was to put a negative tone to things. I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps and 30 years flying commercial jets, so I can drown out other people’s noise and personalities pretty easily, but I think the inside joking nature of it all made people feel like this forum was someone else’s “club”. That inside joke stuff would have been better to have been sent by email and kept off the forum because it added nothing for the rest of us who were not part of the “club”. Just my perception.

The other thing that I think turned people off was when a new guy would ask a question, somebody would invariably answer, “It’s in the archives. Look it up.” I appreciate what Matt Drake has done with this forum but I have to be honest and say, the design of the archives and the search function should not be his biggest bragging point. Searching is not easy to do. It is not, in my opinion, particularly user friendly. So I suspect that, after a number of “It’s in the archives. Look it up” comments, new members quit asking questions.

So how do we fix things and continue to make this forum a valuable asset to builders? Simple. Post. Post questions, as they add to the energy of the list. Also, post by answering the questions. The questions  are the seed, the answers are the water that cause knowledge to sprout up. Just make sure it is good info - iaw ac 43.13 and other standards. Third, post pictures of your work. Don’t be shy. That is the value of west coast Piet.com -the great photos there of so many great Pietenpol. It helps here as well.

Lastly, Pat Weeden has done a great job of saving an organization (one that almost collapsed in an amazingly short period of a couple of years) by taking over the reins of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association. We can all help in a similar way by committing to being active participants on his forum who post as well as encourage other builders and flyers.

Chuck, I know that this is long, but thanks for taking time to read it, as well as the rest of you.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476947#476947






====================================
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================





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steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

O have sometimes found that I can get better technical answers from this list than the BPA list. Though it is improving. Facebook is mostly inspiration. 

OT Gotta go blow the cobwebs off. I will do a simple 1 hour flight today in a Comanche 180. I do my commercial check ride Wednesday. Wish me well.


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1607
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Charles; back when I held a Novice class amateur radio license, my call sign was WN5ODE. So you see, writing an ode has been in my blood from way back ;o)

Terry: thanks for putting into words what several others of us have thought and felt.


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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 698
Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Chuck,

Good to hear from you. All comments like the intros were certainly in jest. I don’t think you have ever been anything BUT a gentleman.

Happy New Year to all, and best wishes for awesome progress in 2018.


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Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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simmor2



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 23
Location: Murfreesboro, TN

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Mr. Hand,

Great comments! It is definitely easier to re-ask a question than to dig through these archives.

I find it much more convenient to go to the Face book page and ask my questions and the responses are generally quick and positive.

If I start a search on matronics, its difficult to get pointed answers without reading multitude of post and bumbling through close topics. Not that I'm not picking up knowledge points while digging but for me, it easily becomes a distraction.

Its easier to go to face book and ask that pointed question and get answers usually in short time.

Perhaps if guys try posting questions, the ones with the first hand knowledge could go ahead and repeat or send known links to specific subject matters. It would really help.

Love the build process! Love the Piet.

Thanks to all that have helped me so far!

Best regards,
Rich Simmons

P.S. One day I hope to see one in person!


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andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

I think we may be past the prime of email lists as a way to get answers to questions.  

A relatively new development has made Q&A a more refined art.  I refer to the stack exchange network, which seems to have started with a site dedicated to programming, (stackoverflow.com) and has more recently launched an aviation site (aviation.stackexchange.com)
The features of these sites keep them tidy, promote the most useful information, and make it relatively easy to find related information.
I have considered standing up similar type-specific sites, but I think it would be better to use the larger site and use a type-specific label.
For Example, I've just posted a pietenpol related question which someone can go answer, and the question can even be edited, for example adding the particular designation of the Riblett airfoil:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/47124/what-are-the-advantages-of-the-riblett-airfoil-over-the-original-pietenpol-airfo

I think this type of format is a great way to get answers to technical questions.  I think there is an important social aspect to these lists, but which is also served well by the facebook groups.
On Jan 1, 2018 2:34 PM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>


Chuck,

Good to hear from you. All comments like the intros were certainly in jest. I don’t think you have ever been anything BUT a gentleman.

Happy New Year to all, and best wishes for awesome progress in 2018.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:


http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476964#476964






====================================
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================






- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Andrew, is this somewhat similar to Quora?

Steve D
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com (andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I think we may be past the prime of email lists as a way to get answers to questions.  

A relatively new development has made Q&A a more refined art.  I refer to the stack exchange network, which seems to have started with a site dedicated to programming, (stackoverflow.com) and has more recently launched an aviation site (aviation.stackexchange.com)
The features of these sites keep them tidy, promote the most useful information, and make it relatively easy to find related information.
I have considered standing up similar type-specific sites, but I think it would be better to use the larger site and use a type-specific label.
For Example, I've just posted a pietenpol related question which someone can go answer, and the question can even be edited, for example adding the particular designation of the Riblett airfoil:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/47124/what-are-the-advantages-of-the-riblett-airfoil-over-the-original-pietenpol-airfo

I think this type of format is a great way to get answers to technical questions.  I think there is an important social aspect to these lists, but which is also served well by the facebook groups.
On Jan 1, 2018 2:34 PM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>


Chuck,

Good to hear from you. All comments like the intros were certainly in jest. I don’t think you have ever been anything BUT a gentleman.

Happy New Year to all, and best wishes for awesome progress in 2018.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:


http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476964#476964






===========
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========







--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Oscar, my call sign was W4KDJ.  Have no idea who has it now, but wish I still had it.  Chuck
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Charles; back when I held a Novice class amateur radio license, my call sign was WN5ODE.  So you see, writing an ode has been in my blood from way back ;o)

Terry: thanks for putting into words what several others of us have thought and felt.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476958#476958






====================================
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================





- The Matronics Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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charlescampbell1924(at)gm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Thanks, Terry.  I try!  Chuck
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 4:32 PM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com (jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com)>

Chuck,

Good to hear from you. All comments like the intros were certainly in jest. I don’t think you have ever been anything BUT a gentleman.

Happy New Year to all, and best wishes for awesome progress in 2018.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476964#476964






====================================
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================





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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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pietflyer



Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

I used to be a Ham.  KA5NXA was my call sign.  Had a Hallicrafters HT-37 transmitter and a Drake 2B receiver.  Good times.

Jack Phillips
NX899JP “Icarus Plummet”
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles N. Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:12 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list?

Oscar, my call sign was W4KDJ. Have no idea who has it now, but wish I still had it. Chuck

On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 12:01 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Charles; back when I held a Novice class amateur radio license, my call sign was WN5ODE. So you see, writing an ode has been in my blood from way back ;o)

Terry: thanks for putting into words what several others of us have thought and felt.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476958#476958
====================================
br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: 2017 - the end of the Matronics Pietenpol list? Reply with quote

Oscar, no wonder I can't seem to get ahead on building the Piet -- I'm
spending two of the last 7 years reading your posts ☺ Chuck
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 2:15 PM, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote]

Charles: it takes you half a day to read my posts because I enjoy
writing. However, they say you can delete every other letter in a word and
your brain still sees enough of it to make sense. Maybe I'll try doing
that and you'll be able to get through my posts in a quarter of a day ;o)

Jeff B.: you say you haven't been as focused on the Piet. Have you
thought about seeing an ophthalmologist about that focus problem?

Steve D.: you find yourself on the Facebook page every day? And to think
there are people going to psychiatrists and doing transcendental meditation
for years in order to try to find themselves, and here you do it just by
going to Facebook!

Don Y.: I agree with your short list of indispensible guides to
Pietenpoling, but I sure miss seeing Mike Cuy's excellent video "The
Building & Flying of NX48MC" on the list. Wish he would continue making it
available since it is instructional, inspirational, and entertaining, all
in one.

John F.: the BPA Pietenpol list admin, Pat Weeden, was trying to work with
Matt Dralle, who of course is the admin of Matronics, to link the BPA site
to the Matronics archives so as not to lose all of that good information
and searchability. However, there are quite a number of lists on Matronics
that see little activity but continue to be archived and supported by Matt
year after year. For that reason, I never hesitate to send $$ to Matronics
every year so I can "mine" the archives and use the search engine as well


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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1607
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: off topic - ham radio Reply with quote

Jack; your mention of the Drake 2B receiver really brought back memories. My best friend in high school, Horace Watson, was the guy who got me interested in ham radio. We both took classes from the local ARRL club to prepare for the Novice exam and to learn Morse. He had a Drake 2B and it was a radio that I always imagined I might own when I was rich and successful and could afford to own a really classy and professional radio. Mine was a Radio Shack receiver kit that I built. Horace and I built and put up a 40m folded dipole antenna on the roof of his garage, later to be joined by a 108-136MHz 1/4-wave groundplane base station antenna for his aircraft band receiver. We were the only two kids in high school who set our watches by WWV ;o)

He and I took the FAA private pilot written exam the same day, administered by the weather specialist who manned the Cotulla, Texas FSS. Back in the day, you could walk into the FSS for an in-person WX briefing or to look at the prog charts and sequence reports as they came off the teletype. I believe Horace and I were both 16 at the time and we both passed the private pilot written with scores in the 90s. He went on to fly a 150, which I couldn't afford (like I couldn't afford the Drake 2B), but just being around the airport and VHF radio chatter was enough to keep the dream alive. Now here I am. Horace died a couple of years ago.


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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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