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Dawg



Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

New buyer in the market.
3 questions: The EA81 Subaru engine, reliable, problem child or??

Can the stock engine be turbo charge? I live at 8300’

Any thing in particular I should inspect in a pre-buy?
Thank you
Bill


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Dawg
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glen



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 165
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Hi William.
I can’t address engine question. However regarding “pre buy inspections”, in the g.a. World, most mechanics do them as an annual inspection due to liability issues. When an A&P does an annual on a plane the first time it involves full removal of interior, all inspection covers even removal of wing tips if screwed into the wing. Visual inspection of everything on the airframe. Removal of all fairings and cowling. Inspection of all landing gear components lube as required service bearings while you’re at it Engine includes oil change and analysis, checking any belts, cooling baffles remove inspect And service plugs check mag timing, leak down test clean and inspect under cowling area That’s the basics. Now let’s talk paperwork
Based upon an up to date equipment list, serial numbers on various components air worthiness directives are researched for applicability and compliance. After everything is done and squawks fixed an IA certifies airworthiness with a signed log entry.
Long story short William. Take this opportunity to inspect every component of this aircraft with your mechanic. With an experimental aircraft, you can only be certified as the mechanic for that specific aircraft if you are the builder so legally your mechanic will have to be involved in a condition inspection any way. Sorry for the long response but this has been my experience.
Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, at 2:21 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com> wrote:



New buyer in the market.
3 questions: The EA81 Subaru engine, reliable, problem child or??

Can the stock engine be turbo charge? I live at 8300’

Any thing in particular I should inspect in a pre-buy?


Thank you
Bill





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glen



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 165
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Hey William. There isn’t a lot of activity on this site. May I recommend your local EAA chapter. If you are not a member already consider joining. Lots of great people and a treasure chest full of knowledge. I’m in Oregon where are you?

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2018, at 2:21 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com> wrote:



New buyer in the market.
3 questions: The EA81 Subaru engine, reliable, problem child or??

Can the stock engine be turbo charge? I live at 8300’

Any thing in particular I should inspect in a pre-buy?


Thank you
Bill





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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 698
Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

For a general discussion of Pre Buy Inspections, what they are, what they are not, and what they should accomplish, I have attached a link to an old Uncontrolled Airspace podcast. In it, Mike Busch discusses the Pre-Buy process. He discusses it from a certified airplane standpoint, but I think that the information is still good for any one looking to buy any airplane.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/4/b/a4bcfe2c77df5d62/UCAP066.mp3?c_id=1739458&expiration=1517764387&hwt=7f73f2ea0d669ea20db926b764c4b6ad


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Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 698
Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

Glen,

Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft. Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P. An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is the big difference.

The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.

No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and, if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific term under FAR 43. It really should be called a pre-purchase examination. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not, and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.

If you don't want to listen to the podcast, below is a link to an article that has some of the same information as the podcast, although in a shortened format.

https://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/prebuy_inspection_mike_busch_annaul_buying_used_airplane-208682-1.html


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Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1606
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Not to color this discussion too much with unrelated comments, but if you own an experimental that someone else built and registered, you may not have the option to have the builder perform the condition inspections unless the person actually applied for and received a Repairman's Certificate for it and if the person is still willing and available.

The builder of my Air Camper, Corky Corbett, is no longer living. Even if he were, he might not agree to perform the inspection for liability reasons, given the modifications and changes that have been made to the airplane since I've owned it.

Terry, thanks for the very valuable articles by Mike Busch.


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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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glen



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 165
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Hi Terry
I agree entirely with your post. I was, however, discussing from a ga perspective as what most mechanics do as a prebuy. Most are done as an annual thus the discussion of an annual.
I’m fortunate to be around Stearman, Waco, staggerwings, robins etc as my job during the week so I’m around people all week long who are very knowledgeable about the beautiful 70-90 year old airplanes. You are right that many mechanics think a round engine means turbine and the very thought that an airplane could be made of wood or covered in what? Could ever fly,is completely beyond comprehension. I too recommend active membership in EAA for the wealth of new people and a huge knowledge base.(where else could I learn how to back braid a cable end instead of swaging).
In any case the reason for my post was to stress the importance of becoming intimately familiar with every physical aspect of the airplane you’re considering putting in your hangar. Blue skies. Glen

Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 7:45 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Glen,

Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft. Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P. An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is the big difference.

The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.

No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and, if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not, and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 698
Location: Athens, GA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are my hero! I am extremely jealous.

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Terry Hand
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jarheadpilot82



Joined: 21 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are my hero! I am extremely jealous.

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Terry Hand
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Pilot78



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 149
Location: SLC, UT

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Great info Terry. Thanks for posting.

Brian
Meridian, ID

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 8:45 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Glen,

Just to be clear, you do not ever need an IA to work on an experimental aircraft. Under the FARs, as the owner, but not the builder, of an experimental airplane you are allowed to do any maintenance on your airplane with the exception of the conditional inspection, which is not an annual. It is essentially the same thing, but it is a "conditional" inspection that can be done by either the holder of the repairman's certificate for that specific airplane, or any A&P. An Annual does require an A&P/IA. A conditional inspection does not. That is the big difference.

The reality is that anybody can do a Pre-Buy on an experimental aircraft. A Pre-Buy is not even required to complete a sale, although that would be a foolish thing to do, in my opinion. I would not necessarily recommend that a buyer who has no background on a particular aircraft (such as a Pietenpol) should go it alone, but he can if he wants to. Most A&P's any more know little to nothing about wood and fabric airplanes. I would submit to you that a member of a local EAA chapter or a technical counselor who is experienced in wooden airplanes would be a far better resource to assess a Pietenpol and whether or not it was worth buying, than an A&P/IA who only works on certified aircraft.

No Pre-Buy inspection ever needs to be entered into an aircraft's logbook, and, if I were the seller, the A&P chosen to do a Pre-Buy would not have my permission to enter anything in the logbook. A Pre-Buy is a look-see. It is not an inspection and really should not be called an inspection as that is a very specific term under FAR 43. Listen to the podcast that I linked to above and I think it will clear up some misconceptions on what a Pre-Buy is, what it is not, and what a Buyer should be allowed to do as part of a Pre-Buy.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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pietflyer



Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Good post, Terry.

Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet", Pietenpol Air Camper, Flying since 2004
N142KW, RV-10, hopefully flying by the end of this year

--


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glen



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 165
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Picture a five tuck splice wrapped with safety wire then soldered. The safety wire is very distinct in that it is comprised of three sections to keep everything flexible. One segment wraps the portion where the thickness tapers to original, one in the middle of splice and fewer wraps and one where the cable forms the eye.
It’s kinda like trying to braid a handful of needles. The first several times I was a bloody mess. They look cool but not really seen by many people
Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 9:43 AM, jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Is a back braid the same as or similar to a 5-tuck Navy Splice? If so, you are my hero! I am extremely jealous.

--------
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA




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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477818#477818











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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1606
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.


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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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Dawg



Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

How reliable is this engine?
Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop




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jboatri(at)emory.edu
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don’t know the reasons.

IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there’s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out.

I don’t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That’s not to say they don’t exist, but…

--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation




From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet



--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>



How reliable is this engine?




Quote:

On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire.I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands!Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it.Salida is at 7,083 MSL.There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------

Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;

A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834





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pietflyer



Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

I agree with Jeff’s assessment.  In addition to the Subaru’s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine.  And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush’s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob.  I don’t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it. 

Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: piet

I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don’t know the reasons.

IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there’s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out.

I don’t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That’s not to say they don’t exist, but…

--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation


From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: piet



--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>



How reliable is this engine?




Quote:

On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------

Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;

A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834













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taildrags



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 1606
Location: Medford, OR

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: piet Reply with quote

I don't know the exact cause of the engine stoppage that caused John's Subaru-powered Piet to crash, but I have this information from Greg Bacon:

"John simply told me the engine quit and he landed it shortly after take off from the airport in Jefferson, IA. After the landing, someone helped him take the wings off and put it in a hanger there. When I got the airplane home, I removed the engine cowl and found the main intake hose disconnected from the top of the intake manifold. From that, I drew the conclusion that the hose clamp was insufficient to keep the hose attached under the pressures generated by the turbo. Heat, vibration, and turbo pressure slowly allowed the hose to come loose. When it did, the engine started drawing air at that location, causing the engine to lean out and die."


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Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop
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Dawg



Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available orDo I need to custom build one? Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8’300’.

Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.

Bill

Quote:
On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com (jack(at)bedfordlandings.com)> wrote:
I agree with Jeff’s assessment. In addition to the Subaru’s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine. And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush’s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob. I don’t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it.

Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Boatright, JeffreySent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AMTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Re: piet

I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don’t know the reasons.

IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there’s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out.

I don’t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That’s not to say they don’t exist, but…

--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation


From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AMTo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>Subject: Re: Re: piet



--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>



How reliable is this engine?





Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire. I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands! Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it. Salida is at 7,083 MSL. There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------

Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;

A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834





http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List

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This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use ofthe intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privilegedinformation. If the reader of this message is not the intendedrecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distributionor copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictlyprohibited.If you have received this message in error, please contactthe sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of theoriginal message (including attachments).


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Dawg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their power at RPMs on the higher end of what really works. Parts are plentiful, and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad choice.  motor mounts can be found 

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available orDo I need to custom build one?    Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8’300’.
Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.
Bill

Quote:
On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com (jack(at)bedfordlandings.com)> wrote:
I agree with Jeff’s assessment.  In addition to the Subaru’s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine.  And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush’s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob.  I don’t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it.  
 
Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
 
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: piet


 
I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don’t know the reasons. 
 
IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there’s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. 
 
I don’t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That’s not to say they don’t exist, but…  
 
-- 
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
 
 
From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet

 

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>

 

How reliable is this engine?

 

 

Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire.  I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands!  Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it.  Salida is at 7,083 MSL.  There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------

Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;

A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834

 

 











http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List





http://forums.matronics.com





http://wiki.matronics.com







http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

 

 
 
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.

If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).




--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: piet Reply with quote

O-200s make a nice higher horsepower match for Pietenpols. They make their power at RPMs on the higher end but still in the sweet spot.  Parts are plentiful, and they are stone simple to work on. It would not be a bad choice.  motor mounts can be found or made. If they are already made you fit the plane to the back of the motormount. 
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 8:00 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Never having built an airplane, how big a deal is it to put a different engine on? Motor mounts available orDo I need to custom build one?    Will an 0-200 work? 100hp would be nice at 8’300’.
Thank you all for the advice and info. Keep it coming.
Bill

Quote:
On Feb 5, 2018, at 06:56, Jack Philips <jack(at)bedfordlandings.com (jack(at)bedfordlandings.com)> wrote:
I agree with Jeff’s assessment.  In addition to the Subaru’s reputation in Pietenpols, I know that the first fatal crash of an RV-10 was caused by a failure of its Subaru engine.  And what Oscar Zuniga failed to mention in his post (below) is that the reason Greg Bacon now owns John Dilatush’s Subaru powered Pietenpol is that John crashed it due to an engine failure with the Soob.  I don’t know if Greg is going to continue to use that engine or put a more proven powerplant, such as a Continental or Corvair on it.  
 
Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
 
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 8:22 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: piet


 
I know of at least three locally that have failed while in the air. I don’t know the reasons. 
 
IMO, you are much, much better off getting the manuals and rebuilding a Continental. Yes parts costs are high, and yes, you can still be surprised by unexpected wear or damage, but in the end, you have a reliable engine. With the Soobs, you have the same unknowns in terms of previous wear or damage, but there’s a whole bunch more unpredictability in terms of the rebuild AND the conversion. Plus, all of the ancillary systems will need to be worked out. 
 
I don’t know of a single Soob installation that has worked out well in the long run. That’s not to say they don’t exist, but…  
 
-- 
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Core Director & Research Biologist
Atlanta VAMC Center for Visual & Neurocognitive Rehabilitation
 
 
From: <owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 8:11 AM
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)" <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: piet

 

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>

 

How reliable is this engine?

 

 

Quote:
On Feb 4, 2018, at 21:11, taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com (taildrags(at)hotmail.com)>

Unless my memory is too cloudy to recall the details, my Dad's old Navy Bluejackets' Manual had knots and splices described in it, and he taught me the 5-tuck splice but in rope and with cord whipping, not in cable with wire.  I can only imagine what it must be like to try to 5-tuck 1/8" or 3/32" aircraft cable with your bare hands!  Dad served in the Navy in WWII as a meteorologist aboard the USS Jerauld.

But to get back to Bill about the Subaru engine for higher altitudes, turbocharging has been done but not with the EA81 that I know of... an EA82T is on John Dilatush's (now Greg Bacon's) Air Camper that he flew out of Salida, CO when he owned it.  Salida is at 7,083 MSL.  There are photos of it on Westcoastpiet, just go to the 'Pictures' page and scroll down to the Js for John Dilatush.

--------

Oscar Zuniga

Medford, OR

Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot;

A75 power, 72x36 Culver prop

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477834#477834

 

 











http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List





http://forums.matronics.com





http://wiki.matronics.com







http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

 

 
 
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.

If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).




--
Blue Skies,

Steve D


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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