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Europa Cabin heater.

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Europa48

Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

Does anyone have a simple option for a cabin heater other than moving South

For the Winter?

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

I live in bogota so heating isnt necessary.  However i have a friend who has a sport cruiser.   This sport cruoser simply has a hole in the firewall with butterfly on it....nothing fancy.  Im guessing that since the ac comes from czech republic where it gets cold in winter that it must work ok.

Will





On Feb 1, 2018 12:18, "Europa48" <corinthian(at)me.com (corinthian(at)me.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa48" <corinthian(at)me.com (corinthian(at)me.com)>

 

 Does anyone have a simple option for a cabin heater other than moving South

 For the Winter?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477748#477748

 

 

 

 

 

 

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gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

Le 01/02/2018 à 18:16, Europa48 a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Does anyone have a simple option for a cabin heater other than moving South

 For the Winter?


	


Hi all,



This is what we did, simple, light, efficient :

http://contrails.free.fr/cellule_chauffage_en.php



Please note that you need a correctly designed radiator duct.

Otherwise, you'll have to resort to the old exhaust heat muff.



FWIW



-- 

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:41 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

Thx Gilles for doing all the r&d and validation - definitely will be my choice!



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 2, 2018, at 1:41 PM, GTH <gilles.thesee(at)free.fr> wrote:

 

 

 

> Le 01/02/2018 à 18:16, Europa48 a écrit :

> 

> 

> Does anyone have a simple option for a cabin heater other than moving South

> For the Winter?

 

 Hi all,

 

 This is what we did, simple, light, efficient :

 http://contrails.free.fr/cellule_chauffage_en.php

 

 Please note that you need a correctly designed radiator duct.

 Otherwise, you'll have to resort to the old exhaust heat muff.

 

 FWIW

 

 -- 

 Best regards,

 Gilles

 http://contrails.free.fr

 http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

Europa48

Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Cabin heater.

That doesn't look very simple.



Anyone use an exhaust muff and ducting?

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

I use the original CLASSIC exhaust welded-on exhaust muff which I found not very effective (too small). 



A few years ago, I ducted a small Aircraft Spruce exhaust muff clamped to the exhaust in series which brought the temps a bit up but still not very effective. It ,added weight and I had some doubt on long term stability of the clamped on situation. It came off after one winter. A through-the-firewall hole is out of question for me as regulations clearly enforce to tightly sealed engine forward compartment from the cockpit: the classic exhaust is mated to the cylinders by means of a ball pressed onto the cylinder which potentially leaks some fumes when vibrational resonances are encountered, or exhaust stack nuts loosen or go missing (yes, this can happen!). 



Furthermore, the 2-piece separate exhaust pipes are held together with a loosely fit inside/outside pipe connection held by elastic springs allowing small amounts of exhaust gas to escape through 4 connectors. With the cabin being naturally lower pressure in flight compared with the engine compartment, any exhaust bypass would be sucked into the cabin.



For these reasons my set up employs a separate hot/cold entry air mixer receiving pressurized warm air from the muff (air entry taken ahead of the oil cooler up front cowling) and a separate pressurized NACA scoop for fresh air. The air mixer allows full shut off of all entries and these by nature being of higher pressure blow-by setting would not allow any engine compartment gases to enter the cockpit. In addition, there are 2 small NACA fresh air verts fitted for direct fresh air in case of engine fire, exhaust failure, etc. The entire setup weights about one pound extra.

To stay warm, I have a 1lb weight, removable car seat regulated heat pad strapped onto the seat, drawing only 3 amps (preside). My entire panel with GRT EFIS, EIS and a minimum legal collection of steam gauges draws only 3 amps.

Christoph Both

#223

Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada

On 2018-02-04, 19:02, "owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Europa48" <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of corinthian(at)me.com> wrote:



    

    

    That doesn't look very simple.

    

    Anyone use an exhaust muff and ducting?

    

    

    

    

    Read this topic online here:

    

    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477829#477829

Europa48

Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Europa Cabin heater.

Hello Christoph



Your system sounds interesting, not quite clear on how you duct the warm air to the cabin if you don’t go through the firewall.



David

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

The air mixer goes through the firewall, but it does not allow engine compartment air to directly enter the cabin.

In other words, what I have seen lately in pictures, it appears people just cut a hole on the firewall to allow warm air to come into the cabin - perhaps I misunderstood.

Christoph



On 2018-02-05, 13:27, "owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Europa48" <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of corinthian(at)me.com> wrote:



    

    

    Hello Christoph

    

    Your system sounds interesting, not quite clear on how you duct the warm air to the cabin if you donâ€™t go through the firewall.

    

    David

    

    

    

    

    Read this topic online here:

    

    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477852#477852

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Europa Cabin heater.

Hello David,



there was a discussion on this very topic in the forum before http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386008



Just in case, you didn't see it already.



BTW: I have a flap behind my oil cooler (no CO hazard) and it works quite okay in OAT of -5°C without a jacket and without sunlight, the latter helping a lot to increase the temperature inside the cabin.



I found, that oil temperatures of at least 80°C are necessary to achieve the obove.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Europa Cabin heater.

Gents, 



You may know that the UK Europa Exhaust suppliers CKT are working on an exhaust-muffler mounted cabin heater.  I helped MD Chris Piper to package it using my XS-FF/912S installation and made a couple of cardboard prototypes for that purpose.  As a result, a fabricated stainless 'intake box, muffler shroud and firewall flap-valve that are almost production-ready, now exist at CKT.  AFAIK no (LAA) paperwork supports it yet though - but for our non-UK friends in really cold climes, it may offer at least some ideas?



BTW some rudimentary calcs of my own showed that the exhaust-muffler mounted solution really can capture several kW of heat power (=too much heat?).



email me separately if you'd like a few pics of the prototype solution (as for some reason i cannot add attachments . . .)



https://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Mods%20and%20Repairs/TL%203.17%20List%20of%20approved%20Prototype%20mods.pdf

gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

Le 05/02/2018 à 00:01, Europa48 a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 That doesn't look very simple.



 Anyone use an exhaust muff and ducting?


	


Hi David,



I understand your concern.

The cabin heat described in Contrails ! is very simple (1 door, 1 

control, 1 duct) and efficient provided that

- Your aircraft has an adequate radiator duct

- The water/oil temperatures are adequately regulated with a cowl flap



If not, (leaky duct or no duct, unregulated temps, oil/water thermostat 

leading to low radiator temps, etc.) you'd have to first sort out the 

engine cooling system or resort to the heat muff, heated vest or seat, etc.



Please note that to be safe, a heat muff must feature double walls, 

otherwise it can lead to direct ingress of deadly fumes into the 

cockpit. Also it only works when the engine is delivering considerable 

power.

And of course the installation is not as simple : air intake, double 

walled heat muff, valve box, hot air duct to the cabin, hot air dump, 

control linkage.



In any case, the passage through the firewall must be gas and fireproof.



All the best with your decisions and your project,



-- 

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: Europa Cabin heater.

Sure, using a Sky-Tek heat muff and Aviacomp DL-025 cabin heat box. 



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