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Vertical Power VP-X Pro

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alan_hunter1664

Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc?

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

Alan, I would suggest you ask your inspector.  There is clearly a fair bit offreedom in exactly how you wire your electrics, but there is probably the understanding that it needs to conform to standard practise, and he should be able to say whether he would be happy to Sign it off as such.  

 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJOn 2018-03-08 17:15, alan_hunter1664 wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk (alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk)>



I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc?





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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:45 am Post subject: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

Hi Alan,

My suggestion is that your first port of call, reference installation of this engine and its systems into your aircraft in the UK is to ask the LAA engineering dept.  I think you will find the process is pretty complicated.

Pete Jeffers  (LAA  Inspector to the Europa Club)

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk

Sent: 08 March 2018 19:03

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

 

Alan, I would suggest you ask your inspector.  There is clearly a fair bit offreedom in exactly how you wire your electrics, but there is probably the understanding that it needs to conform to standard practise, and he should be able to say whether he would be happy to Sign it off as such.

 



Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJOn 2018-03-08 17:15, alan_hunter1664 wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "alan_hunter1664" <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk (alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk)> I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc?    Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478499#478499 	
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		  I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc? 	
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		  I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc? 	
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		  I'm thinking of installing in the VP-X Pro vertical power system and the new associated Primary Power System. In the UK would this be considered a modification or is this builders choice like the type of instruments etc? 	
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alan_hunter1664

Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

I'm going to send this to my inspector but I would be grateful of any comments on the attached prior to this. Does this look reasonable as an avionics installation for a Europa? there will be a standby altimeter & ASI which isn't shown on the diagram, also I haven't numbered the cables yet either



Thank you in advance

Electrical Wiring Diagram.xlsx

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spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 305
Location: Kent

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

How much, at continuous use, amps are you pulling and what engine are you using? I ask because I have fitted a second second alternator to run all my toys



Regards Frank

alan_hunter1664

Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

I'm looking to put in the rotax 912uls with a 60Amp alternator. I'm using the Vertical Power planner to calculate the total current requirement based on that setup, so far I am under 40Amps. The big hitters from a current perspective seem to be the Pitot heater (10Amps!) and lights which account for over 15Amps.

Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 182

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:00 am Post subject: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

The Pitot I understand but why not use modern LED lights to reduce the current drain?



Alan



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 10 Mar 2018, at 10:45, alan_hunter1664 <alan_hunter1664(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm looking to put in the rotax 912uls with a 60Amp alternator. I'm using the Vertical Power planner to calculate the total current requirement based on that setup, so far I am under 40Amps. The big hitters from a current perspective seem to be the Pitot heater (10Amps!) and lights which account for over 15Amps.

 

 

 

 

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alan_hunter1664

Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

Thanks, I will look at the reduction LED lights make.

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 305
Location: Kent

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

So if your using the rotax external alternator that means you’ll have to modify the top cowl to put a bulge in it?





 	  alan_hunter1664 wrote: 	
		  I'm looking to put in the rotax 912uls with a 60Amp alternator. I'm using the Vertical Power planner to calculate the total current requirement based on that setup, so far I am under 40Amps. The big hitters from a current perspective seem to be the Pitot heater (10Amps!) and lights which account for over 15Amps.

alan_hunter1664

Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 35

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

Thanks I wasn't aware of the need for that. I've not seen a modification for this, is one available or can my inspector sign of this change?

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 305
Location: Kent

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

So the rotax generator only puts out 18 amps max. There are three ways of attaching an alternator. 1 the rotax 40 amp option which runs off the prop flang via a belt but does not fit under the Europa cowls and would need a bulge fitted, 2 an alternator such as a b&c run off the reduction unit which will be at 0.54 ratio, so typically at 5500 engine rpm the alternator will give about 27 amps and 3 a new product which bolts on the back of the engine which will be inside the engine mount giving about 40 amps but costing 1800 euros!! 

     All of the above will require a MOD which I am going through getting one for mine at the moment. 



Good luck



Regards Frank

ploucandco

Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro

Alan, some considerations here:

1. with a pitot heat and the avionics that you want to install, you will need a second alternator. As already mentioned by Frank, there are some options: 

  a. extra rotax alternator, you will need to modify the cowling.

  b. small alternator on the vacuum pump. This can only be a very small size alternator, so a backup one and is potentially not what you need, especially with the pitot heat

  c. B&C alternator on the back of the engine. I have that in my plane but that is a very heavy solution with a heavy alu plate. Will keep it till I overhaul the engine or when this solution fails. I wouldn't recommend it at this time.

  d. Specific designed alternator on the back of the engine like flygas or edgeperformance. This would be my preferred solution at this time.



2. I would expect that with this setup, you want to fly IFR. I see no VOR/ILS radio and/or certified GPS in your setup. Also a second radio is also good to have when you fly IFR. So you will need a simple radio panel instead of the dynon intercom. The PMA4000 is a very good and lightweight solution here.



3. I would prefer to have my eggs in different baskets than having a full dual screens skyview system. Why not 1 Skyview HDX screen and a Garmin G5 or Dynon D10A as backup? I understand that you plan to have a backup altimeter and ASI but I would go for a separate full electronic EFIS that is more reliable with a backup battery and will be consuming less panel space. This remark is dependent on the LAA approval.



4. The Dynon GPS2020 are for the US market with their 2020 ADS-B out requirements. These GPS puck are not sensitive to other GPS systems like Glonass or Galileo. The GPS250 is doing that and costing way less money. As you are based in the UK, I would go for such solution and even try to find a second hand GPS250 (as the US guys are changing these to the GPS2020). 1 GPS puck should be enough. See my previous remark on a certified GPS. It would anyway needs its own puck. Anyway, don't you have an ipad or your phone as last backup?



5. Many things have already been said on the VPX solution. It has pros and contras, but keep in mind the weight of the system/cables and the simplicity  of what you want to replace (switches and breakers...). I was also willing to install one along with a skyview solution, but after many thoughts, I could not motivate myself to change a good and simple working system.



Blue skies, Jacques.

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