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Antenna locations
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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

Thanks for the advice!
Steven DeFord

Sent from my iPad


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rleffler



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

GPS: Top on aluminum aft of cabin cover (two)
Com1/Com2: One under each rear seat
Nav: whiskers on the bottom of the tail
ELT: on top, just in front of vertical
Transponder: tunnel near the exhaust
ADSB: just aft of the second bulkhead behind baggage on the bottom
APRS: on the bottom just aft of the baggage bulkhead

I've been flying for five years and have not experienced any issues.

--


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phil(at)philyoder.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

XM antenna on top


On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com)>

GPS:  Top on aluminum aft of cabin cover (two)
Com1/Com2:  One under each rear seat
Nav:  whiskers on the bottom of the tail
ELT:  on top, just in front of vertical
Transponder:  tunnel near the exhaust
ADSB: just aft of the second bulkhead behind baggage on the bottom
APRS:  on the bottom just aft of the baggage bulkhead

I've been flying for five years and have not experienced any issues.

--


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dmaib(at)mac.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

GPS (2) metal tailcone on top just aft of fiberglass cabin top. ELT further aft on tailcone top. NAV cat whiskers below rudder/horizontal stab on belly. XPDR under LH baggage floor, com2 under RH baggage floor. Access panels in baggage floor allows access to the antennas as well as step bolts. COM 1 under pilot seat. Sirius sat radio on glareshield. ADSB 2 under co-pilot seat. Flawless for 10 years and 1000 hours.

David Maib
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:



For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

Thanks for the advice!
Steven DeFord

Sent from my iPad





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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

Carl

Quote:
On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:



For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

Thanks for the advice!
Steven DeFord

Sent from my iPad





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schmoboy



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

GPS and XM - Under the cowling just forward of the firewall on a custom
shelf
COM1/COM2 - Right behind each rear seat in the baggage floor next to
step bolts with access plate in baggage floor.
NAV - wiskers at top of VS.  Initially under fuselage tail under HS, but
had extreme shadowing there so moved up top.
MKR BCN - inside right wingtip (IMHO no need anymore with
decommissioning and other legal means of identifying)
ELT- under empennage fairing
XPDR/ADSB-Out (Garming gtx330 with ES conversion) one antenna under
right front seat floor.

-Sean #40303 (wow, almost time for 5th condition inspection, time flies)

Steven DeFord wrote on 7/29/2018 3:15 PM:
Quote:


For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

Thanks for the advice!
Steven DeFord

Sent from my iPad



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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

Note,
Location of IFR WAAS GPS under the cowl is of questionable legality and
may impair performance. TSO requires full view of horizon in all
directions, which is hard to do unless it is on top of fuselage or
cabin. Nobody is going to check whether you follow the instructions for
install on certified planes...only you have to decide what you are
comfortable with. I have Dynon VFR GPS under cowl, and Garmin IFR
antenna on top of the cabin.
Kelly

On 7/29/2018 4:34 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
Quote:


GPS and XM - Under the cowling just forward of the firewall on a custom
shelf
COM1/COM2 - Right behind each rear seat in the baggage floor next to
step bolts with access plate in baggage floor.
NAV - wiskers at top of VS.  Initially under fuselage tail under HS, but
had extreme shadowing there so moved up top.
MKR BCN - inside right wingtip (IMHO no need anymore with
decommissioning and other legal means of identifying)
ELT- under empennage fairing
XPDR/ADSB-Out (Garming gtx330 with ES conversion) one antenna under
right front seat floor.

-Sean #40303 (wow, almost time for 5th condition inspection, time flies)

Steven DeFord wrote on 7/29/2018 3:15 PM:
>
>
> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your
> antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors,
> and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>
> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do
> you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope
> reception too?  Marker beacon?
> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>
> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>
> Thanks for the advice!
> Steven DeFord
>
> Sent from my iPad
>






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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? I’m planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

Steve

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:



Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

Carl

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>
> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>
> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>
> Thanks for the advice!
> Steven DeFord
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>







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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 833
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Antenna locations Reply with quote

GPS antenna on top of empenage aft of baggage area.
ELT aft of gps.
Transponder under pilot seat.
COM 1 under right rear passenger seat. (Bent whip).
COM 2 in right wingtip.
VOR/GS in left wingtip.
ADSB-in antennas on forward fiberglass doorposts (just aft of windscreen).
GPS (adsb-in Skyradar) and xm antenna on glareshield.

Belly antenna on the ground? I think one time ground couldn’t hear me, just switched to com 2.

Marker Beacon? Going the way of the Dodo. GPS provides these fixes.


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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:50 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

No issue with tower hearing me - ever.

The “one antenna on the top and one on the bottom” is a Boeing 747 consideration - and not applicable to RVs. The common concept is VHF transmissions are line of sight. This is not exactly correct. While the antenna radiates in a somewhat Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all surrounded surfaces - like the ground. A nearby tower or getting clearance from an airport near where you are are not problems.

As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and there is a hill between the airplane and the airport.

The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports that still have one. I have never done an instrumented approach that had a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake. The new RV-8 project will not have one.

The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass). The GTN-650 can be finicky. While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield, talking with people who’s opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential RFI issues (the GTN-650 has “known RFI problems” and I chased one myself). You will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.

Carl

Quote:
On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? I’m planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

Steve

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.
>
> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>
> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).
>
> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>
> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>
> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.
>
> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>
> Carl
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>>
>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>
>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>> Steven DeFord
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>






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pietflyer



Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs I kind of like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..." as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying the approach correctly. Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need for MB's.

Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year

--


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

I too have GTN650 with Skyview. It seems that the TSO protocol does not
allow using satellites with signals below some integrity threshold,
while the Dynon GPS250 can use them. Dynon talks some about this with
their GPS2020 receiver required for ADSB. The difference is such that my
GPS 250 locks on location while sitting in hangar with door open, while
the 650 requires clear view vertically before it will lock on.
A non-aviation GPS will lock while sitting in the back seat of a car.
Just depends on what the integrity of signal and strength of signal
requirements are for the given application. Best to follow suppliers
recommendations for GPS antenna placement if you plan on having IFR
legality or need ADS-B out quality position signals.
I agree that two belly whips works fine. Occasionally a ground control
or clearance delivery won't hear from one antenna. Switch to other radio
has taken care of those issues. No problem at home drome calling ground
from between hangar rows without line of sight.
Kelly

On 7/30/2018 5:48 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
Quote:


No issue with tower hearing me - ever.

The “one antenna on the top and one on the bottom” is a Boeing 747 consideration - and not applicable to RVs. The common concept is VHF transmissions are line of sight. This is not exactly correct. While the antenna radiates in a somewhat Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all surrounded surfaces - like the ground. A nearby tower or getting clearance from an airport near where you are are not problems.

As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and there is a hill between the airplane and the airport.

The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports that still have one. I have never done an instrumented approach that had a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake. The new RV-8 project will not have one.

The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass). The GTN-650 can be finicky. While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield, talking with people who’s opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential RFI issues (the GTN-650 has “known RFI problems” and I chased one myself). You will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.

Carl

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? I’m planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.
>>
>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>
>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).
>>
>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>
>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>
>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.
>>
>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>>>
>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>
>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>> Steven DeFord
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>







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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1545
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you
to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was
time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All
automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to
maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD
moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may
get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old
land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and
maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably
order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to
pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing
electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
Nostalgia mode off.
Kelly

On 7/30/2018 6:00 AM, Jack Philips wrote:
Quote:


The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs I kind of like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..." as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying the approach correctly. Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need for MB's.

Jack Phillips
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

I have an RV-6A with a com belly ant. Works great most of the time except one time I was on the ground trying to leave the Destin, FL airport. There you have to talk to Eglin departure for clearance to take off, which is located several miles away. I could hear them, but they could not hear me. I had to taxi around the airport until I could find a high enough spot so they could hear me. I put an ant on top of my RV10 to alleviate that problem. Why cause yourself more problems? Just because it works sometimes, doesn’t mean it always will.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? I’m planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.
>>
>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>>
>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).
>>
>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>>
>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>>
>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.
>>
>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>>>
>>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>>
>>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>> Steven DeFord
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>







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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2761

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

I installed and still use the MB in my planes. I figure when
you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest
levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for
really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool
in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware. It's just
a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it
didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.
Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon
is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.
It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over
one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting
when flying by any random airport.

So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the
wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.

Tim
On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
Quote:


Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you
to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was
time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All
automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to
maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD
moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may
get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old
land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and
maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably
order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to
pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing
electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
Nostalgia mode off.
Kelly



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digidocs



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

FWIW, I do find sometimes that on ground the top antenna gets through when the belly one wont.

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>


I installed and still use the MB in my planes.  I figure when
you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest
levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for
really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool
in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware.  It's just
a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it
didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.
Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon
is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.
It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over
one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting
when flying by any random airport.

So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the
wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.

Tim


On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
Nostalgia mode off.
Kelly

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

I have both COM attenna on the bottom, staggered.  I can recall one,
maybe two situations where I was not able to communicate while on the
ground.  Switching to the other radio, I was able to communicate.

On 7/30/2018 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord wrote:
Quote:


Thanks! No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas? I’m planning to go Skyview as well. No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

Steve

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor. That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.
>
> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.
>
> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead. I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well. It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).
>
> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).
>
> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.
>
> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.
>
> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector. While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.
>
> Carl
>
>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas? I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.
>>
>> GPS: into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?
>> COM1/COM2: bottom somewhere? One on top and one on bottom? Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?
>> NAV: whiskers on the VS? Wingtip? Does this cover glide slope reception too? Marker beacon?
>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?
>>
>> ADS-B/Transponder? Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>> Steven DeFord
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>
>




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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 833
Location: Castro Valley, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Antenna locations Reply with quote

Kellym wrote:
Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...

But technology moves on and has us replacing
electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
Nostalgia mode off.
Kelly



I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There aren’t any left around here.
As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics choices. My home field had an “ADF required” ILS. I seriously considered not buying a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldn’t have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today, 10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now “DME required”. So now, if I had gone the ADF route 10 years ago, I’d be looking at a major panel upgrade. I think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.


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tsts4



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Antenna locations Reply with quote

- My cat whisker VOR antenna is mounted on the bottom of the tailcone under the HS

- My #1 COM antenna is mounted right behind the seam of the cabin top and tailcone on the tailcone top skin. I did extend a ground-plane onto the cabin top using 3 strips of copper foil embedded into the fiberglass. My ELT antenna is roughly 2 feet behind it.

- My #2 COM is a bent whip under my right wing under the first inboard bay at the wing root.

- My transponder antenna is right behind the baggage bulkhead on the bottom of the tailcone (my transponder (a GTX 23ES) is back there too)

- I have my GTN 650 and one of my G3X GPS antennas mounted between the doors on the cabin top. The 650 antenna is ahead of the G3X antenna and offset right of centerline; the G3X is offset left. The coax runs through my overhead console.


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aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, and VAF
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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2761

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Antenna locations Reply with quote

It must be region dependent. (ILS with MB). I just flew one at OSH a couple weeks ago and flew over it a couple days ago, and there is one 15 miles from my home airport as well. We aren’t decommissioning all
That fast around me.
Tim

Quote:
On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:




Kellym wrote:
> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...
>
> But technology moves on and has us replacing
> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.
> Nostalgia mode off.
> Kelly
>
>


I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There aren’t any left around here.
As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics choices. My home field had an “ADF required” ILS. I seriously considered not buying a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldn’t have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today, 10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now “DME required”. So now, if I had gone the ADF route 10 years ago, I’d be looking at a major panel upgrade. I think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.

--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB




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