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Streamlined Lift Struts

 
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4600
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.

I like the Carlson extrusions.  Cheaper than the plastic covers.

My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions.  I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part.  Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.

Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land. 




From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle


Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.


http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic. The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry


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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4600
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

Correction:  First line change "facility" to "facilitate".

john h



From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:28 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Streamlined Lift Struts

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.

I like the Carlson extrusions. Cheaper than the plastic covers.

My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions. I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part. Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.

Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land.




From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle


Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.


http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic. The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

So John, you feel that the aluminum aero strut should not be used unreinforced? I respect your opinions on these matters. If you look at the prices plus attachment fixings they’re actually a lot more expensive then the plastic fairings. I ordered a set of fairings last week. They were $158.00 for a pair cut to length. I’m hoping they improve the performance a little and take the vibration out of the standard round struts. George H.
Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:28 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.

I like the Carlson extrusions. Cheaper than the plastic covers.

My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions. I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part. Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.

Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land.




From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle


Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.


http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic. The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry



- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4600
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I chose to go the route of the 4130 based on the amount of weight I anticipated carrying and the weather and terrain I would be flying and landing on.  Nothing scientific in my choice.  Just made me feel better.  This was before I made my first flight to Alaska and I really had no idea what conditions I would be confronted with.  I would rather be over built than under built.  In the end I was glad I made that choice.

I put a lot of hours on the factory MKIII with aluminum streamlined struts, carrying passengers, and had no qualms about flying with them.  The lift strut fittings Carlson makes look good.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:57 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Streamlined Lift Struts

So John, you feel that the aluminum aero strut should not be used unreinforced? I respect your opinions on these matters. If you look at the prices plus attachment fixings they’re actually a lot more expensive then the plastic fairings.
I ordered a set of fairings last week. They were $158.00 for a pair cut to length. I’m hoping they improve the performance a little and take the vibration out of the standard round struts.
George H.

Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth

Mesick, Michigan

gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)


Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:28 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Quote:

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.

I like the Carlson extrusions. Cheaper than the plastic covers.

My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions. I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part. Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.

Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land.




From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle


Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.


http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic. The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry




- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I’ve always liked the over built theory. I may end up building a set of struts using the Carson extrusions this winter. I appreciate your input. George H.
Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth
Mesick, Michigan
gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2018, at 7:26 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I chose to go the route of the 4130 based on the amount of weight I anticipated carrying and the weather and terrain I would be flying and landing on. Nothing scientific in my choice. Just made me feel better. This was before I made my first flight to Alaska and I really had no idea what conditions I would be confronted with. I would rather be over built than under built. In the end I was glad I made that choice.

I put a lot of hours on the factory MKIII with aluminum streamlined struts, carrying passengers, and had no qualms about flying with them. The lift strut fittings Carlson makes look good.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of George Helton
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:57 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Streamlined Lift Struts

So John, you feel that the aluminum aero strut should not be used unreinforced? I respect your opinions on these matters. If you look at the prices plus attachment fixings they’re actually a lot more expensive then the plastic fairings.
I ordered a set of fairings last week. They were $158.00 for a pair cut to length. I’m hoping they improve the performance a little and take the vibration out of the standard round struts.
George H.

Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth

Mesick, Michigan

gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)


Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2018, at 5:28 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Quote:

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.

I like the Carlson extrusions. Cheaper than the plastic covers.

My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions. I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part. Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.

Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land.




From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle


Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.


http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic. The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry






- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4600
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

You are more than welcome.

We always overbuild, it adds weight, increases my confidence, makes me comfortable, and doesn't seem to have affected performance.  Still waiting for another MKIII to outperform Miss P'fer.

Low, slow, and reliable!!!

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama



From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:45 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Streamlined Lift Struts

I’ve always liked the over built theory. I may end up building a set of struts using the Carson extrusions this winter. I appreciate your input.
George H.

Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth

Mesick, Michigan

gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)
Quote:
Quote:







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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1392
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I used the plastic ones over my normal Firestar struts, and used the extra to make gear leg farings as well. I believe that it added about 3 MPH. I think it is worth doing. Like Bill when I started with my firestar I was doing about 55 mph. Clean up this, clean up that and now I can cruise 67 reliably and 72-74 occasionally.Larry
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:29 PM John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

Quote:

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.
 
I like the Carlson extrusions.  Cheaper than the plastic covers.
 
My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions.  I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part.  Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.
 
Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.
 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land. 
 
 
 
 
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

 
Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.
 

http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
 
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic.  The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry


--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.


If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Jerry-TS-MkII



Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 43
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I purchased spars and struts from Carlson for my Bellaire project. And it will be a while before it's finished, so I looked at the numbers, and compared them to the struts on my TS MKII. It used 1 3/8 x .058, plus 1 1/4 x .058. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming it's 6061-T6.

Looking at Carlson's "large strut" (3 1/8 x 1 1/4), here is the comparison.
Cross sectional area is 21% greater. Minimum and Ult yield are 46% and 55% greater. Weight is only 10% higher, so for 2 - 6' struts, that adds 11 oz total. (comparing only the struts, not the fittings, cause I didn't add those up.) It would be easy to use 2 pcs of rectangular stock aluminum, to sandwich flat stock 4130 to make the "revised" strut end fittings.

Vibrating struts reminds me of Hobie Cat rudders, vibrating at speed, and causing LOTS of drag. So it should eliminate the hum, and the speed loss. Too bad she doesn't have a 12' sticks, that could be cut in half. Maybe she does? (Wonderful, charming, intelligent woman by the way).

I know much care is needed when using dissimilar materials over a long distance. (Like aluminum and composites expand at completely different rates with ambient heat changes, which can generate a lot of stress, and even break bonds, etc. if not accounting for the different rates of expansion. Aluminum and steel also expand differently. If someone wanted to sleeve one of these (for serious overkill), use aluminum and avoid the possible problems. At basically 50% stronger than MY stock struts, these should be perfect without any internal additions. The Bellaire uses this size, and the smaller one too (dual struts), but it is a heavier plane, and might have a lot more power bolted on!

If making one or two changes, (which are known to be adequate replacements), all good. But making everything heavier, well.. it makes everything heavier!!

Jerry


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

Another strut streamline site, for diy:http://chrusion.com/BJ7/Streamline/fairings.html

More hassle; less money. Smile
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I used the plastic ones over my normal Firestar struts, and used the extra to make gear leg farings as well. I believe that it added about 3 MPH. I think it is worth doing. Like Bill when I started with my firestar I was doing about 55 mph. Clean up this, clean up that and now I can cruise 67 reliably and 72-74 occasionally.Larry
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:29 PM John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

Quote:

I changed the subject line to better facility search through the archives later on.
 
I like the Carlson extrusions.  Cheaper than the plastic covers.
 
My MKIII kit came with stream lined aluminum extrusions.  I doubled up on them by inserting a 4130 round tube to act as the primary load carrying part.  Used the stream lined ext for drag reduction only.
 
Larry C and I put streamlined fairings on my MKIII gear legs, but could not determine any advantage and removed them.
 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Heading towards the Rock House this Saturday, by land. 
 
 
 
 
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 3:35 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

 
Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.
 

http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html
 
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic.  The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

Jerry


--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.


If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Jerry-TS-MkII



Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 43
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Streamlined Lift Struts Reply with quote

I didn't have much time when I posted the comments about Carlson struts. So this is just another comment on the fittings. Their struts have internal flats that are just over 1" apart. So the ideal solution would be square 4130 tubing (instead of the round). And they could be heated and formed flat, just like the Kolb round fittings. Carlson does have aluminum bar stock fittings that could easily be used.. but way too easy to make up two different sets, as one end fitting has a vertical connection, and the other horizontal.

Jerry


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