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Cabin heat valve

 
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Albert Gardner



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Yuma, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?
Albert Gardner
RV-10 N991RV
Yuma, AZ


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

[img]cid:15291D26-B378-49A3-9869-7A89E9B7D13F(at)flbb.net[/img]
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://wiki.matronics.com



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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling.

What do the stainless doors do?
1) They’re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn’t going to burn them off as quickly.
2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8”) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it’s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel.
Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely.
I have knowledge of two 10’s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn’t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes.
It’s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi’s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel.
When installing them, it’s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they’re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn’t act like a heatsink for your hot doors.
Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I’m sure there are other good products out there, but it’s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it.
Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

[img]cid:15291D26-B378-49A3-9869-7A89E9B7D13F(at)flbb.net[/img]
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution





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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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 Viewed:  825 Time(s)

Screen_Shot_2018-12-07_at_10.06.12_AM.png


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

Phil,
Can you give a link to “SS doors”? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van’s

Thanks.
Rob


Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling.
What do the stainless doors do?
1) They’re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn’t going to burn them off as quickly.

2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8”) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it’s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel.

Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely.

I have knowledge of two 10’s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn’t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes.

It’s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi’s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel.

When installing them, it’s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they’re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn’t act like a heatsink for your hot doors.

Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I’m sure there are other good products out there, but it’s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it.

Phil
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

<Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png>
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution







- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 356

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

That’s it. It looks similar but is made of stainless.

http://www.planeinnovations.com/store/p1/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Phil,
Can you give a link to “SS doors”? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van’s

Thanks.
Rob


Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling.
What do the stainless doors do?
1) They’re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn’t going to burn them off as quickly.

2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8”) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it’s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel.

Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely.

I have knowledge of two 10’s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn’t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes.

It’s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi’s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel.

When installing them, it’s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they’re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn’t act like a heatsink for your hot doors.

Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I’m sure there are other good products out there, but it’s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it.

Phil
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

<Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png>
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution








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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

So, I have a SS Tribox with Silicone gasket that provides the thermal break you are referring to. However, it does not seem to reduce the cabin heat by a noticeable amount. The only time I have had success, is when I block off the scat ducts at the baffles preventing any air from flowing through the heat muffs. Vetterman has told me that it OK to not have any flow through the muffs.
Still looking for improvement and considering firewall insulation.

Do you think there are additional steps the RV10s you are referring to have done?

Thanks.

Do not archive Rob


Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
That’s it. It looks similar but is made of stainless.
http://www.planeinnovations.com/store/p1/Heater_Bypass_Valve.html

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Phil,
Can you give a link to “SS doors”? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van’s

Thanks.
Rob


Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling.
What do the stainless doors do?
1) They’re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn’t going to burn them off as quickly.

2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8”) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it’s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel.

Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely.

I have knowledge of two 10’s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn’t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes.

It’s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi’s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel.

When installing them, it’s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they’re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn’t act like a heatsink for your hot doors.

Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I’m sure there are other good products out there, but it’s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it.

Phil
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

<Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png>
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution









- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Cabin heat valve Reply with quote

What I did.
I installed a piece Koolmat between the cabin heat boxes and the firewall (holes cut out for the boxes): https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php. I extended the mat over the top of the boxes, then down and over the front of the boxes. My thinking:
- No matter what box you use, if you hard mount it to the firewall you will provide a very good heat transfer path to the tunnel (flapper open or shut). The mat between the box and the firewall mitigates this problem.
- During the summer you are still pumping huge amounts of heated air toward the cabin boxes. The hot air bounces off the closed flapper and right back at the engine (in the area of the mechanical fuel pump). The Koolmat draped over the front of the boxes redirects this heated air down to the cowl exit.
One other mod was to put a 3/4” orifice in each heat muff SCAT hose baffle flange. On the coldest day I was only using a fraction of the heat that the system provides, so why have all that air taken away from engine cooling if not needed? I still only crack open the aft heat on cold days.
Never had a tunnel heat problem.
Carl

On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Phil,
Can you give a link to “SS doors”? Plane Innovation website shows a tribox similar to Van’s

Thanks.
Rob


Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 8:38 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Plane Innovations has the stainless doors. Neither the aluminum or stainless doors actually block the airflow. In both doors the airflow is allowed to flow through the muffs, to the doors, and if the doors are closed at the firewall, the air flows out the bottom of the cowling.
What do the stainless doors do?
1) They’re stainless so their melting point is higher than aluminum. So and engine fire isn’t going to burn them off as quickly.

2) They have a small lip (approximately 1/8”) that acts like a baffle to prevent leakage under the door. This is where the heat savings comes in. Rather than letting the air leak under a closed door, it’s redirected away from the cracked opening and most of it goes out the bottom of the tunnel.

Do they work for heat related issues? Absolutely.

I have knowledge of two 10’s within 8 miles of my house that have experienced fuel related heat issues in the Texas summer. One could have turned out very badly but fortunately didn’t. Installing the doors made a dramatic difference on both of those airplanes.

It’s still a good idea to put a radiant barrier on the front of the firewall (that really helped me cool my feet off on long summer taxi’s) but the doors played a significant role in resolving the heat problems inside the tunnel.

When installing them, it’s a good idea to lay down a thick bead of firewall sealant under the doors and then screw the doors down about 3/4 of the way so they’re not tight against the firewall. Then wait for the sealant to cure fully before tightening the doors down the rest of the way. This keeps the cured sealant between the hot doors and the firewall and breaks up the thermal bridge between the doors and firewall. Thus your firewall doesn’t act like a heatsink for your hot doors.

Other note for the archives: I chose to use the Cool It mat from ThermoTec on the (bottom 1/3) front side of the firewall. Adhesive backed, easy to cut to shape, and sticks well assuming you get the surface clean. I used it to line my lower cowling too. I’m sure there are other good products out there, but it’s just what I used because the local Auto Zones carried it.

Phil
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 8, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com (flysrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I this what you are talking about? This is a quality valve but will not change anything in the amount of heat directed at the firewall.

<Screen Shot 2018-12-07 at 10.06.12 AM.png>
Quote:
On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Albert <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)>Some time back in a discussion of heat in the tunnel, I think there was some discussion of an alternate valve on the firewall that diverted hot air from the muffs into the cowl rather than blocking it. Supposedly wade the heat problem less. Anyone remember the unit?Albert GardnerRV-10 N991RVYuma, AZhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution








- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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