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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:23 pm Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
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www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6 |
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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Robin Hou
Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Location: El Monte, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:58 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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M14p can also rebuild them. But you can flash it with WD-40 and likely to extend it's service life for a few months.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 21:37 motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr) wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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cerveirapinto(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Is the start valve the same of yak52?
Na(o) quarta, 16/01/2019, 05:30, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> escreveu:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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cerveirapinto(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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If it's the same you just have to change the o ring inside. Easy to find in a car shop
Na(o) quarta, 16/01/2019, 05:30, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> escreveu:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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pennington.construction.i
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:06 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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If you own a CJ. And you do. All roads lead back to Doug Sapp.
Honest information. Years of experience.
Mark (CJ Owner)
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:30 AM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:44 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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You would be much better off replacing it with a new one from Doug Sapp. Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
Dennis
On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 6:09:40 AM EST, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com> wrote:
If you own a CJ. And you do. All roads lead back to Doug Sapp.
Honest information. Years of experience.
Mark (CJ Owner)
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:30 AM motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:49 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Yes, with one minor difference - sometimes. The Yak 52 air start valves all have the small manual release tab on the side. Some of the ones I've seen on the CJ's do not have the manual release tab. If you can buy one with the manual release tab, get it. Some day you just may need it.
Dennis
On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 5:25:01 AM EST, Pedro Cerveira Pinto <cerveirapinto(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Is the start valve the same of yak52?
Na(o) quarta, 16/01/2019, 05:30, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> escreveu:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:35 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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On that note, if you have a bad starter valve that has the manual lever, and you happen to get a new valve WITHOUT the manual start lever/tab it is possible to take the housing off the old one and put it on the new one and retain the capability.
Mark
--
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motoadve
Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Start valve air leak |
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Thanks for the replies, talked to Doug Sapp, he told me how to WD40 the Starter valve and see if that fixes it , before buying another one.
Which I think its great from Doug instead of just trying to sell me one immediately.
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www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6 |
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Clouddog
Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 116
Location: Lebanon, TN
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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And that's why we love Doug Sapp. We love him like a dog..... Not like a woman. To be perfectly clear!!!
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 12:52 motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr) wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Thanks for the replies, talked to Doug Sapp, he told me how to WD40 the Starter valve and see if that fixes it , before buying another one.
Which I think its great from Doug instead of just trying to sell me one immediately.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487025#487025
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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The early production of the CJ6 air start valve unit was in all likely hood identical to the Russian unit and included the manual start tab discussed here. This tab was almost certainly intended for ground maintenance personnel use.
At some point this feature was removed in Chinese production probably for ground safety reasons and I can think of two or three scenarios here that one would definitely want to avoid.
In about 25 years of restoring and maintaining CJ’s I can not recall ever having used this.
When you overhaul the unit you have the choice of retaining or discarding this feature.
Walt
From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 3:49 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Start valve air leak
Yes, with one minor difference - sometimes. The Yak 52 air start valves all have the small manual release tab on the side. Some of the ones I've seen on the CJ's do not have the manual release tab. If you can buy one with the manual release tab, get it. Some day you just may need it.
Dennis
On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 5:25:01 AM EST, Pedro Cerveira Pinto <cerveirapinto(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Is the start valve the same of yak52?
Na(o) quarta, 16/01/2019, 05:30, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> escreveu:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>
Have a big air leak in the starter valve.
Where can I get a start valve re-build kit? looked at Doug Sapps site and could not find it.
--------
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487008#487008
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eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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 Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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I have a slightly different take on the situation than my good friend Walt. Hopefully we will be able to discuss this and other more pressing world issues over some good Canadian whisky (his, not mine).
Because the QDF-1 start solenoids are widely used on the air start systems in the marine industry in China NEW QDF-1 valves are getting hard to find. This has caused me to establish contact with the firm in China which overhauls these units for the PLAAF. While all seem to be of high quality, some of the overhauled valves which I have received have had the levers and some have not. However 100% of the factory NEW valves which I have received to date have had the levers. This indicated to me that the removal of the levers is perhaps something that is done at the unit level in the PLAAF, and not at the factory which manufactures the valves.
Doug
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:08 AM Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | The early production of the CJ6 air start valve unit was in all likely hood identical to the Russian unit and included the manual start tab discussed here. This tab was almost certainly intended for ground maintenance personnel use.
At some point this feature was removed in Chinese production probably for ground safety reasons and I can think of two or three scenarios here that one would definitely want to avoid.
In about 25 years of restoring and maintaining CJ’s I can not recall ever having used this.
When you overhaul the unit you have the choice of retaining or discarding this feature.
Walt
From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 3:49 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Start valve air leak
Yes, with one minor difference - sometimes. The Yak 52 air start valves all have the small manual release tab on the side. Some of the ones I've seen on the CJ's do not have the manual release tab. If you can buy one with the manual release tab, get it. Some day you just may need it.
Dennis
On Wednesday, January 16, 2019, 5:25:01 AM EST, Pedro Cerveira Pinto <cerveirapinto(at)gmail.com (cerveirapinto(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Is the start valve the same of yak52?
Na(o) quarta, 16/01/2019, 05:30, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> escreveu:
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_1918869392943923429_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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stephen.hayne
Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Start valve air leak |
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| dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote: | ...Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
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Can someone please explain how this is used? I mean, do you move the tab, then hop in and it will start (maybe), even without enough battery to move the solenoid, but enough battery to make the shower of sparks work?? (I've read the posts from Walt/Doug - just picked Dennis' to reply too) (edited - misattributed to Dave not Dennis).
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_________________
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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
Last edited by stephen.hayne on Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Pulling on the tab actuated the valve. It’s basically the same as hand-propping it when the battery is dead, except you can stand safely behind the prop and let the air turn the blades for you.
Jon
| Quote: | On Jan 21, 2019, at 9:38 PM, stephen.hayne <stephen.hayne(at)gmail.com> wrote:
dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
> ...Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
>
Can someone please explain how this is used? I mean, do you move the tab, then hop in and it will start (maybe), even without enough battery to move the solenoid, but enough battery to make the shower of sparks work?? (I've read the posts from Walt/Doug - just picked Dave's to reply too)
--------
-
Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
666CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487154#487154
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stephen.hayne
Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Start valve air leak |
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All righty then - best to not touch this in the hangar, or when anyone is near the prop! 
Learn something new about this airplane practically every week...
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_________________
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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:32 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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If you have to use the manual air start release, it requires two people
to start the airplane. One to press the tab to open the air start valve
and the other in the cockpit to start the airplane. The person on the
ground is essentially performing the function of the battery when the
start button is pressed.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 1/21/2019 10:30 PM, stephen.hayne wrote:
| Quote: |
dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
> ...Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
>
Can someone please explain how this is used? I mean, do you move the tab, then hop in and it will start (maybe), even without enough battery to move the solenoid, but enough battery to make the shower of sparks work?? (I've read the posts from Walt/Doug - just picked Dave's to reply too)
--------
-
Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
666CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487154#487154
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:39 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Jon,
Are you saying you can start the airplane/CJ by yourself?
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 1/21/2019 10:43 PM, Jon Boede wrote:
| Quote: |
Pulling on the tab actuated the valve. It’s basically the same as hand-propping it when the battery is dead, except you can stand safely behind the prop and let the air turn the blades for you.
Jon
> On Jan 21, 2019, at 9:38 PM, stephen.hayne <stephen.hayne(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
>> ...Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
>>
> Can someone please explain how this is used? I mean, do you move the tab, then hop in and it will start (maybe), even without enough battery to move the solenoid, but enough battery to make the shower of sparks work?? (I've read the posts from Walt/Doug - just picked Dave's to reply too)
>
> --------
> -
> Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
> 666CJA
> http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487154#487154
>
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stephen.hayne
Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Start valve air leak |
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Thinking about it, if it is like hand-propping... mixture, throttle, prop, air, brakes, prime, switches, mags, and then get out and press the tab?
So, perhaps I should have written "don't touch in the hangar" in green font. Except that I think I have left the air on, once maybe.
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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Start valve air leak |
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Possible. But not recommended. 😉
| Quote: | On Jan 22, 2019, at 6:45 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
Jon,
Are you saying you can start the airplane/CJ by yourself?
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
> On 1/21/2019 10:43 PM, Jon Boede wrote:
>
>
> Pulling on the tab actuated the valve. It’s basically the same as hand-propping it when the battery is dead, except you can stand safely behind the prop and let the air turn the blades for you.
>
> Jon
>
>> On Jan 21, 2019, at 9:38 PM, stephen.hayne <stephen.hayne(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote:
>>> ...Ask Doug if he has one with the small tab on the side. The tab is a manual release in case your battery will not activate the solenoid. VERY beneficial to have.
>>>
>> Can someone please explain how this is used? I mean, do you move the tab, then hop in and it will start (maybe), even without enough battery to move the solenoid, but enough battery to make the shower of sparks work?? (I've read the posts from Walt/Doug - just picked Dave's to reply too)
>>
>> --------
>> -
>> Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
>> 666CJA
>> http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487154#487154
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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