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Coalescing Filters

 
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yakman285(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:43 am    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

Warren has listed some good stuff about air system *stuff*. During Florida summers the air-water filter must be serviced at 6-8 hour intervals. We should get our Seaplane wings for all the flying in the soup.
I sold my airplane before I could implement some other way to get the water out of the system. There may be some potential in "coalescing filters" that are used in high pressure gas systems to eliminate moisture. Not cheap, but they are made from stainless and ceramic components.

My plan was to place between the "Deposit Bottle" and the water-air filter. Many come with a petcock drain as well. Just something I never got around to doing.
Craig Payne


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hill(at)doctor-hill.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:54 am    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

Craig,
Great idea! Looking at what’s commonly available, many appear to be for relatively low pressure systems. Of course, what we do is above 700 psi.

Here is a link to a company that makes this type of high pressure speciality filter.

http://www.parker.com/Literature/IGFG/PDF-Files/HighPressure.pdf

Several of the smaller ones look like they have potential. Of these, which is option do you think might be closest to what you had in mind?

Warren Hill

Quote:
On Jan 28, 2019, at 4:42 AM, Craig Payne <yakman285(at)gmail.com (yakman285(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Warren has listed some good stuff about air system *stuff*. During Florida summers the air-water filter must be serviced at 6-8 hour intervals. We should get our Seaplane wings for all the flying in the soup.

I sold my airplane before I could implement some other way to get the water out of the system. There may be some potential in "coalescing filters" that are used in high pressure gas systems to eliminate moisture. Not cheap, but they are made from stainless and ceramic components.

My plan was to place between the "Deposit Bottle" and the water-air filter. Many come with a petcock drain as well. Just something I never got around to doing.

Craig Payne
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

Hi Craig;

Could not agree more. Air filter servicing periodicity is a function of operating time and area humidity and I believe there is a fairly reliable method of determining what that periodicity should be.

The second “deposit bottle” is in the brake system and I presume it’s primary purpose is to keep moisture out of the brake bladders which (if allowed
to accumulate) could result in a brake frozen on landing under the right circumstances.

Since this deposit bottle is located at the lowest point in the system (other than the brakes) it would seem that any trace of moisture here would indicate the distinct possibility of contamination throughout the entire system.
Over the last few years I have monitored that situation and determined that the first trace of moisture shows up between 12 and 13 hours of operation and the air filter desiccant is fully saturated.

As a result my air filter servicing periodicity is 10 to 12 hours and I am in a relatively “dry” area (extreme Northern end of the Sonora Desert – which after 100 years of irrigation really does not look like desert any more). I think Warren is in a real desert area and his periodicity should be considerably longer. But for the folks in Florida (or even Ontario!) I would suggest they make an effort to routinely monitor that second “deposit bottle” and determine their periodicity, the target being “no trace” of moisture.

Cheers;
Walt


From: Craig Payne (yakman285(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 3:42 AM
To: yak-list (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Coalescing Filters


Warren has listed some good stuff about air system *stuff*. During Florida summers the air-water filter must be serviced at 6-8 hour intervals. We should get our Seaplane wings for all the flying in the soup.

I sold my airplane before I could implement some other way to get the water out of the system. There may be some potential in "coalescing filters" that are used in high pressure gas systems to eliminate moisture. Not cheap, but they are made from stainless and ceramic components.


My plan was to place between the "Deposit Bottle" and the water-air filter. Many come with a petcock drain as well. Just something I never got around to doing.

Craig Payne


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romaine_richard(at)yahoo.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:13 am    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

Realized by accident (duh) when I was chasing a slow leakdown, nitrogen refills of the service tank are a low tech version of a supplemental air dryer. Not sure of the cost effectiveness of regular nitrogen refills vs the coalescing filter solution, though.

...and my box stock 285 CJ doesn't seem to have any more issues engine starting on nitrogen than air.

Cheers,
Rich


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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

About the stainless steel desiccant filter:
I recommend that when a new filter is installed that you fly it for 6-8
hours and check the color of the desiccant. Bright orange means that it is
still dry, while grey green means that it is wet. If it is grey green you
will know that your change interval is somewhat LESS than 6-8 hours, if
bright orange it is MORE than 6-8 hours. The change interval is different
for each area depending on your humidity. Walt is correct, FL may be
considerably less than 6-8 hours while Warren's AZ change interval may in
fact only be once a year. The desiccant kits are 100% reuseable, just dry
the desiccant in a electric oven (at)200F overnight, wash and dry the filters
and screens and your good to go again. Most guys buy a second desiccant
kit to use while the other one is being cleaned. Bottom line is that if
you live/fly in an area of even moderate humidity and your only servicing
the desiccant filter once a year, your kidding yourself.

A new filter:
We have been testing a "final filter" to combat trash (air tank rust, grit,
ect.,) in the air system, grit is one of the two main killers of the gear
and flap valves, the other of course being moisture. The prototype final
filters were made out of old check valves and it appears from all reports
to be doing the job, but because they are aluminum and not stainless they
may, in time corrode and actually cause the problem we are trying to
prevent. To solve the problem once and for all time we are now producing a
stainless steel filter based on the check valve design, they will be
available in about 2 weeks. These filters are NOT for moisture protection
and contain only felt filter pads to contain the grit, they should require
service only at annual conditional inspection time.

Last note, several of you were waiting for new canopy rails, they are in
stock now if needed.
Best to all,
Doug
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:24 PM Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

[quote] Hi Craig;

Could not agree more. Air filter servicing periodicity is a function of
operating time and area humidity and I believe there is a fairly reliable
method of determining what that periodicity should be.

The second “deposit bottle” is in the brake system and I presume it’s
primary purpose is to keep moisture out of the brake bladders which (if
allowed
to accumulate) could result in a brake frozen on landing under the right
circumstances.

Since this deposit bottle is located at the lowest point in the system
(other than the brakes) it would seem that any trace of moisture here would
indicate the distinct possibility of contamination throughout the entire
system.
Over the last few years I have monitored that situation and determined
that the first trace of moisture shows up between 12 and 13 hours of
operation and the air filter desiccant is fully saturated.

As a result my air filter servicing periodicity is 10 to 12 hours and I am
in a relatively “dry” area (extreme Northern end of the Sonora Desert –
which after 100 years of irrigation really does not look like desert any
more). I think Warren is in a real desert area and his periodicity should
be considerably longer. But for the folks in Florida (or even Ontario!) I
would suggest they make an effort to routinely monitor that second “deposit
bottle” and determine their periodicity, the target being “no trace” of
moisture.

Cheers;
Walt

*From:* Craig Payne <yakman285(at)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 28, 2019 3:42 AM
*To:* yak-list <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:* Coalescing Filters

Warren has listed some good stuff about air system *stuff*. During Florida
summers the air-water filter must be serviced at 6-8 hour intervals. We
should get our Seaplane wings for all the flying in the soup.

I sold my airplane before I could implement some other way to get the
water out of the system. There may be some potential in "coalescing
filters" that are used in high pressure gas systems to eliminate moisture


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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Coalescing Filters Reply with quote

I have been carrying N2 in the CJ 6 emergency air tank for a few years now. Lose about 5 ATM per year at annual gear cycle with a quick top up of N2.

Emergency pressure set to 50 with Normal (operating) system set to 47 so little to no chance of compressor air dilution. The numbers of course vary a bit with changing OAT and ambient pressure but the ratio remains the same.
Easy to do; just charge with N2 with the main air valve closed. This charges the operating circuit and emergency tank but not the main tank.



On occasion have also started the engine after that charge with no problem though that may not be the case with N2. only and some latent engine problem such as mis-primed, etc. Once all cylinders have been purged with N2 it is probably not going to start.



Walt


From: Richard Romaine (romaine_richard(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 3:12 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Coalescing Filters


Realized by accident (duh) when I was chasing a slow leakdown, nitrogen refills of the service tank are a low tech version of a supplemental air dryer. Not sure of the cost effectiveness of regular nitrogen refills vs the coalescing filter solution, though.


...and my box stock 285 CJ doesn't seem to have any more issues engine starting on nitrogen than air.


Cheers,
Rich






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