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Long Distance Trailering

 
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:40 pm    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

Hi Kolbers,

My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.

One of the big questions I have is whether it is better to put it in the truck or t railer with the wings attached to the U-joint, or whether it is better to remove the wings entirely and mount or hang them in the truck separate from the fuselage.

This is not going to be a 100 or 200 mile trip. Also, neither the buyer or seller will be doing the driving. So neither of us will be there to check on it during the trip.

When I look at the U-joint attaching the wings to the fuselage, It looks to bevery strongly built, however I also understand that it may not have been intended to take ROAD vibrations and loads. The U-joint can certainly take 2 or 3 times the load and dofce that any Kolb will ever see in flight... BUT... tens of thousands of small up and down vibrations may not be something that this U-joint was designed for.

I would welcome the opinions of Kolbers who have lots of experience (good or bad) with trailering or trucking their Kolb. Has anyone experienced damage or wear on the U-Joint due to ground transport?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities


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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

Bill
Over the years I have haled my MKIII over 6,000 miles with no damage. I bought a long single axle boat trailer and fully enclosed it. The key is a lightly sprung transport. Most trucks and trailers long enough to transport a Kolb are designed to carry a heavy load and are going to bounce your Kolb around way too much. I left my wings attached but supported them at the universal joint and at the tips.
Good luck 
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 2:41 AM Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

Hi Kolbers,

My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.

One of the big questions I have is whether it is better to put it in the truck or t railer with the wings attached to the U-joint, or whether it is better to remove the wings entirely and mount or hang them in the truck separate from the fuselage.

This is not going to be a 100 or 200 mile trip. Also, neither the buyer or seller will be doing the driving. So neither of us will be there to check on it during the trip.

When I look at the U-joint attaching the wings to the fuselage, It looks to bevery strongly built, however I also understand that it may not have been intended to take ROAD vibrations and loads. The U-joint can certainly take 2 or 3 times the load and dofce that any Kolb will ever see in flight... BUT... tens of thousands of small up and down vibrations may not be something that this U-joint was designed for.

I would welcome the opinions of Kolbers who have lots of experience (good or bad) with trailering or trucking their Kolb. Has anyone experienced damage or wear on the U-Joint due to ground transport?


Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities


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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I transported a Kolb Mk1 from central FL to MS on an open trailer built to haul a Thorp T-18. Light weight springs, like Rick describes. It was a 'project' plane, but we re-attached the wings at the pivot point for transport. We did not use the aft tube attach points; instead used a cradle under the wings' leading edges back there. IIRC, I just strapped the axles directly to  a 2x4 (no wheels/tires on the axles).

The only damage was to the 30 year old wing fabric, from some of the strapping flapping in the 'breeze'.  I'm pretty sure the only reason for the fabric damage is that it was ready to come off anyway, and would have failed a punch test.

Charlie

On 2/2/2019 12:35 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote:

Quote:
Bill


Over the years I have haled my MKIII over 6,000 miles with no damage. I bought a long single axle boat trailer and fully enclosed it. The key is a lightly sprung transport. Most trucks and trailers long enough to transport a Kolb are designed to carry a heavy load and are going to bounce your Kolb around way too much. I left my wings attached but supported them at the universal joint and at the tips.


Good luck 


Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 2:41 AM Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

Hi Kolbers,

My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.

One of the big questions I have is whether it is better to put it in the truck or t railer with the wings attached to the U-joint, or whether it is better to remove the wings entirely and mount or hang them in the truck separate from the fuselage.

This is not going to be a 100 or 200 mile trip. Also, neither the buyer or seller will be doing the driving. So neither of us will be there to check on it during the trip.

When I look at the U-joint attaching the wings to the fuselage, It looks to bevery strongly built, however I also understand that it may not have been intended to take ROAD vibrations and loads. The U-joint can certainly take 2 or 3 times the load and dofce that any Kolb will ever see in flight... BUT... tens of thousands of small up and down vibrations may not be something that this U-joint was designed for.

I would welcome the opinions of Kolbers who have lots of experience (good or bad) with trailering or trucking their Kolb. Has anyone experienced damage or wear on the U-Joint due to ground transport?


Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I brought the FS II back from South East Alabama...

I used a Tandem trailer that was heavily sprung....

I placed foam cushions under the tail boom to bring it 5 or so inches off of the deck..

Then I did the same for the wings..being careful that they did not bounce and chafe the fabric...I winched the wheels to each side rail of the trailer...and to the front to stabilize..also winched the tail wheel to both sides...

Had a very scenic leisurely drive up 231.... Herb

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Saturday, February 2, 2019 12:35 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Quote:
Bill

Over the years I have haled my MKIII over 6,000 miles with no damage. I bought a long single axle boat trailer and fully enclosed it. The key is a lightly sprung transport. Most trucks and trailers long enough to transport a Kolb are designed to carry a heavy load and are going to bounce your Kolb around way too much. I left my wings attached but supported them at the universal joint and at the tips.

Good luck

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC


On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 2:41 AM Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>



Hi Kolbers,



My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.



One of the big questions I have is whether it is better to put it in the truck or t railer with the wings attached to the U-joint, or whether it is better to remove the wings entirely and mount or hang them in the truck separate from the fuselage.



This is not going to be a 100 or 200 mile trip. Also, neither the buyer or seller will be doing the driving. So neither of us will be there to check on it during the trip.



When I look at the U-joint attaching the wings to the fuselage, It looks to bevery strongly built, however I also understand that it may not have been intended to take ROAD vibrations and loads. The U-joint can certainly take 2 or 3 times the load and dofce that any Kolb will ever see in flight... BUT... tens of thousands of small up and down vibrations may not be something that this U-joint was designed for.



I would welcome the opinions of Kolbers who have lots of experience (good or bad) with trailering or trucking their Kolb. Has anyone experienced damage or wear on the U-Joint due to ground transport?





Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities





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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

Burt Howland, an old aviator, owned and flew a Bearcat until he was physically no longer to fly it, designer of the Honey Bee and Chip Monk, was the smoothest pilot taxiing I have ever seen.  He never got in a hurry and was very gentle and respectful of his aircraft on the ground.  I never forgot that, however, I didn't always taxi like he did.  He also designed another model, but I can't remember the name of it.  He and his wife, Ellen, were good friends I met at the Ultralight Flight Farm the first time I flew my Firestar up there in 1988.  Ellen was a WASP during WWII and also a flight instructor.  Burt lived and had a grass strip and hanger in Maryland, NY.  I flew up there in 1989, spent a week with them, flew all the New England states in a day, a long day, from his airstrip.  From there flew to the Ultralight Flight Farm, Niagara Falls, Sault St Marie, Canada, and Oshkosh. 

I trailered my MKIII from Muncho Lake, British Columbia, to Oshkosh, and south to Alabama in 2000.  For that trip I had a borrowed enclosed trailer, strapped the wings to the walls, supported the tail boom in a cradle.  Only problem was dust from many sections of road that were gravel and under repair.  New Lexan had to be replaced.  Back then it was not that much of a job.  Now days it is impossible.

john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama


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rlaird



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 365
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I transported my Kolb via enclosed trailer from California to Texas.  I would definitely remove the wings and suspend them with straps from the ceiling of the trailer, and then protect them as best you can from any type of rubbing (from the straps and from the trailer).  I also had a cushioned boom tube cradle.
On Sat, Feb 2, 2019, 1:43 AM Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net) wrote:

Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>

Hi Kolbers,

My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.

One of the big questions I have is whether it is better to put it in the truck or t railer with the wings attached to the U-joint, or whether it is better to remove the wings entirely and mount or hang them in the truck separate from the fuselage.

This is not going to be a 100 or 200 mile trip. Also, neither the buyer or seller will be doing the driving. So neither of us will be there to check on it during the trip.

When I look at the U-joint attaching the wings to the fuselage, It looks to bevery strongly built, however I also understand that it may not have been intended to take ROAD vibrations and loads. The U-joint can certainly take 2 or 3 times the load and dofce that any Kolb will ever see in flight... BUT... tens of thousands of small up and down vibrations may not be something that this U-joint was designed for.

I would welcome the opinions of Kolbers who have lots of experience (good or bad) with trailering or trucking their Kolb. Has anyone experienced damage or wear on the U-Joint due to ground transport?


Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities


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George Alexander



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 236
Location: SW Florida

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal. wrote:
Hi Kolbers,

My Kolb Firestar is being sold to a person in another part of the country over 1000 miles away from here, and we are going to arrange for it to be shipped to him by freight truck or trailer. I want to make sure that it arrives undamaged.

. . S . N . I . P. . .

Bill Berle

. . S . N . I . P. . .



The "Trailering a Kolb" section on my web site has a lot of information and a wide variety of solutions concerning this subject.

http://oh2fly.net/Main_trailer_kolb.htm


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Rex Rodebush



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I would consider renting a U-Haul and having either the buyer or seller transport it.

Using a commercial freight hauler is asking for trouble in my opinion.


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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

there are web sites where one can hire independent haulers....sometimes,
just guys with a Dodge diesel truck and a 25 foot enclosed trailer...

My experience with one of them was not good....He claimed to the buyer
that He had hauled planes before....When we started to load...I could
see he had no idea...!! Get some references...Herb


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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:43 pm    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I have no personal experience with these guys, but they transport a lot
of Van's Aircraft quickbuild kits, without crating.

https://freefreightsearch.com/brokers/14306-partain-trading-company-inc-dba-partain-transport-company
One thread on  the Van's Airforce forum:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=94007&highlight=partain+transport

Charlie

On 2/2/2019 8:04 PM, Herb wrote:
Quote:


there are web sites where one can hire independent
haulers....sometimes, just guys with a Dodge diesel truck and a 25
foot enclosed trailer...

 My experience with one of them was not good....He claimed to the
buyer that He had hauled planes before....When we started to load...I
could see he had no idea...!!  Get some references...Herb


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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:21 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

Thanks Charlie !

I read that VAF thread and sent him an e-mail. He certainly comes highly recommended in the Vans community.

The buyer and myself are both strongly wanting to get this done safely. I will be here to help load and secure the Kolb when it leaves, but having a transporter who gives a s*** about it while it's on the road is definitely worth the trouble to find if we can afford it.

The first thing I tried to do was get one of my friends in the local ultralight community to trailer it for us, but his old marginal vehicle cannot make the trip. I cannot take it to him myself, and he cannot get time off work to come get it.



I have no personal experience with these guys, but they transport a lot of Van's Aircraft quickbuild kits,
without crating.

https://freefreightsearch.com/brokers/14306-partain-trading-company-inc-dba-partain-transport-company
One thread on  the Van's Airforce


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Pfatchantz(at)protonmail.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

Dollar a mile is a nice number if you can get it..
Herb
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Sunday, February 3, 2019 9:20 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Quote:


Thanks Charlie !

I read that VAF thread and sent him an e-mail. He certainly comes highly recommended in the Vans community.

The buyer and myself are both strongly wanting to get this done safely. I will be here to help load and secure the Kolb when it leaves, but having a transporter who gives a s*** about it while it's on the road is definitely worth the trouble to find if we can afford it.

The first thing I tried to do was get one of my friends in the local ultralight community to trailer it for us, but his old marginal vehicle cannot make the trip. I cannot take it to him myself, and he cannot get time off work to come get it.



I have no personal experience with these guys, but they transport a lot of Van's Aircraft quickbuild kits,
without crating.

https://freefreightsearch.com/brokers/14306-partain-trading-company-inc-dba-partain-transport-company
One thread on  the Van's Airforce



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Rex Rodebush



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

The Van's guy seems like a good bet. I think the main thing is that after it is loaded the trailer is not opened until it arrives at the destination. Loading and off loading additional items along the way can cause problems. When I moved from Ohio to Missouri I rented a U-Haul and also removed the wings and supported everything on 6" upholstery foam that I bought at a fabric store.

No Problems.


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13brv3



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Long Distance Trailering Reply with quote

I've used Partain's service for two RV kits, and they were fantastic. It will arrive in the longest trailer you've ever seen Smile

Rusty


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