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europa10(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:16 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

SPURPURA

Joined: 04 Apr 2015
Posts: 67
Location: KAPV

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Weight and balance

Can you move the battery forward?

_________________
N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:23 am Post subject: Weight and balance

hi Bill,

Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with airmaster props, batteries, and 914's up front.  What engine are your running?

Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to extend the engine forward as (if) required.

Cheers,

Pete



On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 â€“ 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently Iâ€™m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Bill,

You donâ€™t say where you have the battery.  My Europa was originally a tail heavy mono but I had the battery under the baggage bay.  Moving the battery & master relay forward to the top of the footwell solved the problem for me.  Removing all that heavy cable run cut the overall weight by a couple pounds as well.  Always better to move weight rather than add it if you can.



Best wishes on your newly finished aircraft.



Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX  76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)On Mar 24, 2019, at 6:15 AM, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 â€“ 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently Iâ€™m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Bill, Very surprised to hear that. I don't think I have come across that degree of imbalance. The idea of carrying an extra 30+ lbs around strapped to the gear box is appalling! I would be very tempted to re-weigh and carefully check the sums. But what engine & prop have you and where is your battery? If the battery is in the back then shift it on top of the footwell forward of the firewall. That will save some weight with reduced cabling and of course move the C of G forward. Have you got a wobbly prop? If not that adds  a good amount at optimum forward position, quite apart from seriously improving performance. Tell us more perhaps including the weighings so we could check the C of G calculations. 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2019-03-24 11:15, Bill wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 &ndash; 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I&rsquo;m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: Weight and balance

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.   

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.   

  

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about  10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.)  

  

Solutions: 

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell. 

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds) 

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them. 

  

Finally: 

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.) 

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math. 

Make sure the fuel tank is empty. 

  

Keep us posted.  It’s probably just a math and weight error. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Custom Flight Creations 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Weight and balance  

 

   

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

europa10(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Bud,

 

Thanks for the response.

Don’t guess I’ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th….

Hope it doesn’t flood you out like last year.

 

 

Here’s what I’ve got:

 

912ULS

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.

 

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual.

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  I’ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 – 1.5 inches would sure make a difference.

Battery on top of the passenger foot well. 

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay.

 

I’ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them.

 

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations.

 

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales.

 

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Weight and balance

 

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.  

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.  

 

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.) 

 

Solutions:

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them.

 

Finally:

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math.

Make sure the fuel tank is empty.

 

Keep us posted.  It’s probably just a math and weight error.

 

Best Regards,

Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Weight and balance 

 

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

europa10(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

Pete,

 

Thanks for the response.Â  I just responded to Budâ€™s note will all the particulars.

Donâ€™t know if youâ€™ve got the classic or the XS.Â  I know the engine on the XS is further forward than on my classic so I would expect the XS to be more nose heavy.

 

Bill

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:22 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Weight and balance

 

hi Bill,



 



Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with airmaster props, batteries, and 914's up front.  What engine are your running?



 



Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to extend the engine forward as (if) required.



 



Cheers,



Pete

On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 â€“ 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently Iâ€™m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

On 2019-03-24, at 19:44, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations.


	




Bill - Iâ€™m a little bit concerned that the engine mount might not have been stressed for an extra 30lb mass so far forward - would any propeller be that much heavier than a plain vanilla Warp Drive?



Also, if your main wheel is not at the expected station that affects the math - but I imagine you have done the appropriate correction.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:36 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

Did you fill the tail with lead??!! Lol

 

 

   Steve Ivell

 

  Oldham

 

  07971 128842

 

 

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 8:22:17 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance  

 

   

Pete, 

  

Thanks for the response.  I just responded to Bud’s note will all the particulars. 

Don’t know if you’ve got the classic or the XS.  I know the engine on the XS is further forward than on my classic so I would expect the XS to be more nose heavy. 

  

Bill 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:22 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Weight and balance 

 

 

   

hi Bill, 

  

  

  

Thats a switch, i kept hearing the need to weight in the tail, with airmaster props, batteries, and 914's up front.  What engine are your running? 

  

  

  

Hoping for a light turbo 120hp 4-cyl d-motor in mine, i was prepared to extend the engine forward as (if) required. 

  

  

  

Cheers, 

  

Pete 

  



 On Mar 24, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: 

  	  Quote: 	
		    

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so. 

  

I don’t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring  from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.   

  

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.  From that line measure  29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point. 

  

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance  

 

   

Bud, 

  

Thanks for the response. 

Don’t guess I’ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th…. 

Hope it doesn’t flood you out like last year. 

  

  

Here’s what I’ve got: 

  

912ULS 

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod. 

  

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual. 

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.) 

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  I’ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 – 1.5 inches would sure make a difference. 

Battery on top of the passenger foot well.  

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay. 

  

I’ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them. 

  

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations. 

  

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales. 

  

  

Thanks, 

Bill 

  

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

 

  

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.   

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.   

  

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about  10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.)   

  

Solutions: 

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell. 

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds) 

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them. 

  

Finally: 

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.) 

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math. 

Make sure the fuel tank is empty. 

  

Keep us posted.  It’s probably just a math and weight error. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Custom Flight Creations 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

    

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Weight and balance   

  

 

  

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

europa10(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:29 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

Bud,

 

I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.  Still get the same measurements using your method.  Guess I’ve got a scale problem.  I will try some other scales with some friends at the airport that have weighed other planes.  

Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine so I won’t be doing that.  Hopefully it’s just my scales reading incorrectly at high weights.  I’m also going to try loading them up with known weights to check.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun!

 

Bill

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Weight and balance

 

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so.

 

I don’t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.  

 

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.  From that line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point.

 

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.

 

Best Regards,

Bud Yerly

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

Bud,

 

Thanks for the response.

Don’t guess I’ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th….

Hope it doesn’t flood you out like last year.

 

 

Here’s what I’ve got:

 

912ULS

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.

 

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual.

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  I’ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 – 15 inches would sure make a difference.

Battery on top of the passenger foot well. 

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay.

 

I’ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them.

 

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations.

 

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales.

 

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Weight and balance

 

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.  

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.  

 

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.) 

 

Solutions:

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them.

 

Finally:

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math.

Make sure the fuel tank is empty.

 

Keep us posted.  It’s probably just a math and weight error.

 

Best Regards,

Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouthnet>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Weight and balance 

 

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

I took my scales to the gym and put 1000 lb of barbells on them...



Sent from my iPhone 



On Mar 24, 2019, at 4:28 PM, Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Bud,

 

I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.  Still get the same measurements using your method.  Guess Iâ€™ve got a scale problem.  I will try some other scales with some friends at the airport that have weighed other planes.  

Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine so I wonâ€™t be doing that.  Hopefully itâ€™s just my scales reading incorrectly at high weights.  Iâ€™m also going to try loading them up with known weights to check.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun!

 

Bill

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Weight and balance

 

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so.

 

I donâ€™t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.  

 

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.  From that line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point.

 

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.

 

Best Regards,

Bud Yerly

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

Bud,

 

Thanks for the response.

Donâ€™t guess Iâ€™ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6thâ€¦.

Hope it doesnâ€™t flood you out like last year.

 

 

Hereâ€™s what Iâ€™ve got:

 

912ULS

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.

 

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual.

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  Iâ€™ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 â€“ 15 inches would sure make a difference.

Battery on top of the passenger foot well. 

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay.

 

Iâ€™ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them.

 

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations.

 

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales.

 

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Weight and balance

 

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.  

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.  

 

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.) 

 

Solutions:

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them.

 

Finally:

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math.

Make sure the fuel tank is empty.

 

Keep us posted.  Itâ€™s probably just a math and weight error.

 

Best Regards,

Bud Yerly

Custom Flight Creations

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouthnet>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Weight and balance 

 

Hello everyone,

 

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.

 

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 â€“ 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.

 

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently Iâ€™m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar).

 

Thanks,

Bill 

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 239

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:37 am Post subject: Re: Weight and balance

Like Rowland l am concerned with the structural integrity of the airframe (motor mount stressing).  Adding 40lbs of ballast adds at least 152lbf to the vertical inertia loads (at LIMIT condition, n=3. and also may pull the local CG (of the mass supported by the motor mount) forward.  Special factors increase this to 304lbf (ULT, n=3.8, SF=2.0 for composites) into the load-bearing fuselage structure.  Similarly, (but lower) increase in load occurs for side, fore-aft, etc.



Hopefully some CG calc checks and/or simple config changes will yield a cure.

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 239

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Weight and balance

Like Rowland l am concerned with the structural integrity of the airframe (motor mount stressing).  Adding 40lbs of ballast adds at least 152lbf to the vertical inertia loads (at LIMIT condition, n=3. and also may pull the local CG (of the mass supported by the motor mount) forward.  Special factors increase this to 304lbf (ULT, n=3.8, SF=2.0 for composites) into the load-bearing fuselage structure.  Similarly, (but lower) increase in load occurs for side, fore-aft, etc.



Hopefully some CG calc checks and/or simple config changes will yield a cure.

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

europa10(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:53 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Thanks everyone for your responses to my weight and balance issues.



I am now pursuing the possibility of an issue with the scales.



Ivan also warned me not to add any weight to the engine.



It's great to have a group to go to for instant help.



Thanks again,



Bill

N51EU

Europa Monowheel Classic

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:11 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Bill, 

The only way I can imagine your main gear being forward is your landing gear frame may not be positioned correctly.  I highly doubt that.  I doubt that the tail planes and rudder are filled with a lead based filler, and you probably didn’t  use a lead filled tail wheel so I see no way you need that much weight. 

  

Scales are a pain, I have to have mine recalibrated and certified every two years for about $500 and I’m tired of it. 

Use known weights and check proportionality of your scales.  Typically on the recalibration they check 250 pound increments to the scale limit.  Mine right now stay linear, but now one is dead and, one creeps up at about 2 pounds per second,  which is disastrous amount so only one scale works now after doing nothing but sitting.   

  

Go slow, take your time, and double check.  I agree, a 40 pound counter weight forward of the firewall is unacceptable.  There is no part designed to take that. 

  

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:28:19 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance  

 

   

Bud, 

  

I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.  Still get the same measurements using your method.  Guess I’ve got a scale problem.  I will try some other scales with some friends  at the airport that have weighed other planes.   

Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine so I won’t be doing that.  Hopefully it’s just my scales reading incorrectly at high weights.  I’m also going to try loading them up  with known weights to check. 

  

Thanks for the help. 

  

Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun! 

  

Bill 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

 

  

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so. 

  

I don’t want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring  from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.   

  

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.  From that line measure  29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point. 

  

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

    

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance   

  

 

  

Bud, 

  

Thanks for the response. 

Don’t guess I’ll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th…. 

Hope it doesn’t flood you out like last year. 

  

  

Here’s what I’ve got: 

  

912ULS 

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod. 

  

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual. 

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.) 

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  I’ve checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 – 15 inches would sure make a difference. 

Battery on top of the passenger foot well.  

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay. 

  

I’ve checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them. 

  

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations. 

  

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales. 

  

  

Thanks, 

Bill 

  

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

 

  

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.   

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.   

  

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about  10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.)   

  

Solutions: 

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell. 

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds) 

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them. 

  

Finally: 

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.) 

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math. 

Make sure the fuel tank is empty. 

  

Keep us posted.  It’s probably just a math and weight error. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Custom Flight Creations 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

    

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouthnet>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Weight and balance   

  

 

  

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 – 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I’m planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:48 am Post subject: Weight and balance

Bill, Or trail your plane to someone who has anestablished, regularly checked set up for weighing  planes and starts with no preconceptions. 

Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2019-03-25 13:11, Bud Yerly wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      

Bill, 

The only way I can imagine your main gear being forward is your landing gear frame may not be positioned correctly.  I highly doubt that.  I doubt that the tail planes and rudder are filled with a lead based filler, and you probably didn't use a lead filled tail wheel so I see no way you need that much weight. 

  

Scales are a pain, I have to have mine recalibrated and certified every two years for about $500 and I'm tired of it. 

Use known weights and check proportionality of your scales.  Typically on the recalibration they check 250 pound increments to the scale limit.  Mine right now stay linear, but now one is dead and, one creeps up at about 2 pounds per second, which is disastrous amount so only one scale works now after doing nothing but sitting.  

  

Go slow, take your time, and double check.  I agree, a 40 pound counter weight forward of the firewall is unacceptable.  There is no part designed to take that. 

  

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:28:19 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Weight and balance  

 

   

Bud, 

  

I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.  Still get the same measurements using your method.  Guess I've got a scale problem.  I will try some other scales with some friends at the airport that have weighed other planes.   

Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine so I won't be doing that.  Hopefully it's just my scales reading incorrectly at high weights.  I'm also going to try loading them up with known weights to check. 

  

Thanks for the help. 

  

Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun! 

  

Bill 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

 

  

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so. 

  

I don't want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.   

  

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.  From that line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point. 

  

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Weight and balance   

  

 

  

Bud, 

  

Thanks for the response. 

Don't guess I'll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th.... 

Hope it doesn't flood you out like last year. 

  

  

Here's what I've got: 

  

912ULS 

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod. 

  

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual. 

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.) 

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.  I've checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  That extra 1 &ndash; 15 inches would sure make a difference. 

Battery on top of the passenger foot well.  

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay. 

  

I've checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them. 

  

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations. 

  

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales. 

  

  

Thanks, 

Bill 

  

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Weight and balance 

 

 

  

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.   

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.   

  

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.)  

  

Solutions: 

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell. 

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds) 

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them. 

  

Finally: 

Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.) 

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.  Check the math. 

Make sure the fuel tank is empty. 

  

Keep us posted.  It's probably just a math and weight error. 

  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Custom Flight Creations 

  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

  

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouthnet> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Weight and balance   

  

 

  

Hello everyone, 

  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 &ndash; 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.  Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

I built my tri from the book without weighing anything and without paying much attention.Â  The W&B turned out to be almost exactly what the book predicted.

Whenever I have came across a heart stopping incident during the build it was always due to a mistake or a misreading that I had made.Â  Â (and I made quite a few)

Will

William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:51 AM <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    

Bill, Or trail your plane to someone who has anestablished, regularly checked set up for weighing Â planes and starts with no preconceptions. 

Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ 

Â  Â 

 

On 2019-03-25 13:11, Bud Yerly wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      

Bill, 

The only way I can imagine your main gear being forward is your landing gear frame may not be positioned correctly.Â  I highly doubt that.Â  I doubt that the tail planes and rudder are filled with a lead based filler, and you probably didn't use a lead filled tail wheel so I see no way you need that much weight. 

Â  

Scales are a pain, I have to have mine recalibrated and certified every two years for about $500 and I'm tired of it. 

Use known weights and check proportionality of your scales.Â  Typically on the recalibration they check 250 pound increments to the scale limit.Â  Mine right now stay linear, but now one is dead and, one creeps up at about 2 pounds per second, which is disastrous amount so only one scale works now after doing nothing but sitting.Â  

Â  

Go slow, take your time, and double check.Â  I agree, a 40 pound counter weight forward of the firewall is unacceptable.Â  There is no part designed to take that. 

Â  

Bud Yerly 

Â  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

Â  

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:28:19 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance Â 

 

   

Bud, 

Â  

I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted below.Â  Still get the same measurements using your method.Â  Guess I've got a scale problem.Â  I will try some other scales with some friends at the airport that have weighed other planes.Â   

Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the engine so I won't be doing that.Â  Hopefully it's just my scales reading incorrectly at high weights.Â  I'm also going to try loading them up with known weights to check. 

Â  

Thanks for the help. 

Â  

Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun! 

Â  

Bill 

Â    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance 

 

 

Â  

Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day or so. 

Â  

I don't want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct joggle.Â  Basically it is the cowl line.Â  If you are using the front of your cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half off if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face.Â  The measurement for the zero datum is not the cowl face.Â  It is the original prop flange distance of the prototype Classic.Â   

Â  

The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the datum.Â  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.Â  Drop a plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.Â  From that line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and you have the zero datum.Â  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono from that point. 

Â  

Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue. 

Â  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Â  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

Â  

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouth.net (europa10(at)bellsouth.net)>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Weight and balance   

Â  

 

  

Bud, 

Â  

Thanks for the response. 

Don't guess I'll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th.... 

Hope it doesn't flood you out like last year. 

Â  

Â  

Here's what I've got: 

Â  

912ULS 

Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod. 

Â  

With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 per the manual. 

Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.) 

Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.Â  I've checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)Â  That extra 1 â€“ 15 inches would sure make a difference. 

Battery on top of the passenger foot well.  

Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage bay. 

Â  

I've checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will check again.Â  They weigh correctly with me on them. 

Â  

I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 30 lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most flight configurations. 

Â  

I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to double check me with another set of scales. 

Â  

Â  

Thanks, 

Bill 

Â  

Â    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance 

 

 

Â  

It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.Â   

If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler, is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I would expect that may happen.Â   

Â  

(Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.Â  Your 30-40 pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made com wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.Â  Also, a Deutz tractor gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail weight that much.)  

Â  

Solutions: 

Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell. 

A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.Â  Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds) 

If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds apiece, get rid of them. 

Â  

Finally: 

Recheck your scales.Â  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scale is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.) 

Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level flight is subtracted out.Â  Check the math. 

Make sure the fuel tank is empty. 

Â  

Keep us posted.Â  It's probably just a math and weight error. 

Â  

Best Regards, 

Bud Yerly 

Custom Flight Creations 

Â  

Sent from  Mail for Windows 10 

Â  

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Bill <europa10(at)bellsouthnet>

 Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Weight and balance   

Â  

 

  

Hello everyone, 

Â  

After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic. 

Â  

Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 30 â€“ 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the CG where I want it.Â  The current empty weight is 801 pounds. 

Â  

I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added weights, etc.Â  Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rotax gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5 steel bar). 

Â  

Thanks, 

Bill  

N51EU 

Europa Monowheel Classic 

Â

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: Weight and balance

Hi Bill,



Something is definitely wonky.  I would start by checking your scales.  You noted in the original email a total weight of 801 lbs.  However, in a subsequent post you break out the weight for the main wheel at 683 lbs and 78.5 lbs at the tail wheel.   This only sums to 761.5.  Where did the other 40 lbs go?  



Regards,

Erich 

N28ET 

Classic Mono 914

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