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Returning to Phase 1?

 
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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Returning to Phase 1? Reply with quote

I am helping a friend do some work on his airplane and we are considering making some modifications that could put the airplane back in Phase 1 for another 5 hour test spin.

He purchased the flying RV, so he is not the builder of the aircraft and does not have the repairman certificate.

In this scenario, what is the process of putting the airplane back in Phase 1 testing? As the owner who is not the builder, can he create the logbook entry resubmitting it into Phase 1 and then take it back out? Or could that be done by and A&P/IA? Or does that require a visit to the FSDO?

I’m unclear how the process works if you’re not the builder with a repairman certificate.

Thanks,
Phil


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1626
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Returning to Phase 1? Reply with quote

Now that you are involved with the Homebuilt Council, (congratulations),
I'm sure Vic Syracuse can give you a better explanation than I can.
Ditto Mel Asberry.
Lets start with maintenance and modification. Examine the operating
limitations for the aircraft in question. They will say what has to be
done for a major modification. Typically, notify the FSDO and if the
plane is in same area as original phase I, do 5 hours test flying. If
plane is now in different FSDO area, request new test area.
As for doing the work...there is no license needed, not repairman nor
A&P. The only time a license is needed is for performing the condition
inspection. As for logbook, enter description of work done, state a
Phase I test period was done and completed. When the the FSDO is
notified, they may assign a different test period or may want to modify
the test area. There is no entry for placing a plane in Phase I, only an
entry for completion of Phase I.
You don't state the type of modification...you use the guidance in Part
43, Appendix A for making the determination of whether it is major. Prop
model change or engine change definitely is. Adding a Yaw damper to an
RV may or may not be. It will take a few hours of calibration flights
anyway. One can consult with the FSDO if in doubt.

On 4/12/2019 4:55 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Quote:


I am helping a friend do some work on his airplane and we are considering making some modifications that could put the airplane back in Phase 1 for another 5 hour test spin.

He purchased the flying RV, so he is not the builder of the aircraft and does not have the repairman certificate.

In this scenario, what is the process of putting the airplane back in Phase 1 testing? As the owner who is not the builder, can he create the logbook entry resubmitting it into Phase 1 and then take it back out? Or could that be done by and A&P/IA? Or does that require a visit to the FSDO?

I’m unclear how the process works if you’re not the builder with a repairman certificate.

Thanks,
Phil





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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD
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philperry9



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Returning to Phase 1? Reply with quote

Good insight.

Might be worth a phone call to the FSDO to see if this is something that can be done via email rather than making the trip up in person. (Almost 2hrs away)

Thanks for the congrats. A little clarification, I’m sitting on the Chapter Advisory Council rather than homebuilt council. I’d always be willing to chat with you folks on ideas and issues that I might be able to bring back to the chapters office at OSH. I’m not an EAA employee, but do have the ear of a few folks in the chapters office and I’m happy to help chapters do their thing.

Phil

Quote:
On Apr 12, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:



Now that you are involved with the Homebuilt Council, (congratulations), I'm sure Vic Syracuse can give you a better explanation than I can. Ditto Mel Asberry.
Lets start with maintenance and modification. Examine the operating limitations for the aircraft in question. They will say what has to be done for a major modification. Typically, notify the FSDO and if the plane is in same area as original phase I, do 5 hours test flying. If plane is now in different FSDO area, request new test area.
As for doing the work...there is no license needed, not repairman nor A&P. The only time a license is needed is for performing the condition inspection. As for logbook, enter description of work done, state a Phase I test period was done and completed. When the the FSDO is notified, they may assign a different test period or may want to modify the test area. There is no entry for placing a plane in Phase I, only an entry for completion of Phase I.
You don't state the type of modification...you use the guidance in Part 43, Appendix A for making the determination of whether it is major. Prop model change or engine change definitely is. Adding a Yaw damper to an RV may or may not be. It will take a few hours of calibration flights anyway. One can consult with the FSDO if in doubt.

> On 4/12/2019 4:55 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>
> I am helping a friend do some work on his airplane and we are considering making some modifications that could put the airplane back in Phase 1 for another 5 hour test spin.
> He purchased the flying RV, so he is not the builder of the aircraft and does not have the repairman certificate.
> In this scenario, what is the process of putting the airplane back in Phase 1 testing? As the owner who is not the builder, can he create the logbook entry resubmitting it into Phase 1 and then take it back out? Or could that be done by and A&P/IA? Or does that require a visit to the FSDO?
> I’m unclear how the process works if you’re not the builder with a repairman certificate.
> Thanks,
> Phil





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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1626
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Returning to Phase 1? Reply with quote

Yes, my mistake...I saw your appointment on the Chapter video. Lots of
very good things coming out of the chapters office....boot camp for
leaders, membership management tool, Young Eagles management website,
etc. If you call the FSDO, be sure to get a maintenance inspector. I
would ask if they have a maintenance inspector that specializes in
homebuilt aircraft. Locally, I would talk to my FAAST team maintenance
coordinator, for a recommendation of which inspector to ask for.
Kelly
Pres. Chapt 1445

On 4/12/2019 7:40 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Quote:


Good insight.

Might be worth a phone call to the FSDO to see if this is something that can be done via email rather than making the trip up in person. (Almost 2hrs away)

Thanks for the congrats. A little clarification, I’m sitting on the Chapter Advisory Council rather than homebuilt council. I’d always be willing to chat with you folks on ideas and issues that I might be able to bring back to the chapters office at OSH. I’m not an EAA employee, but do have the ear of a few folks in the chapters office and I’m happy to help chapters do their thing.

Phil





> On Apr 12, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Now that you are involved with the Homebuilt Council, (congratulations), I'm sure Vic Syracuse can give you a better explanation than I can. Ditto Mel Asberry.
> Lets start with maintenance and modification. Examine the operating limitations for the aircraft in question. They will say what has to be done for a major modification. Typically, notify the FSDO and if the plane is in same area as original phase I, do 5 hours test flying. If plane is now in different FSDO area, request new test area.
> As for doing the work...there is no license needed, not repairman nor A&P. The only time a license is needed is for performing the condition inspection. As for logbook, enter description of work done, state a Phase I test period was done and completed. When the the FSDO is notified, they may assign a different test period or may want to modify the test area. There is no entry for placing a plane in Phase I, only an entry for completion of Phase I.
> You don't state the type of modification...you use the guidance in Part 43, Appendix A for making the determination of whether it is major. Prop model change or engine change definitely is. Adding a Yaw damper to an RV may or may not be. It will take a few hours of calibration flights anyway. One can consult with the FSDO if in doubt.
>
>> On 4/12/2019 4:55 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> I am helping a friend do some work on his airplane and we are considering making some modifications that could put the airplane back in Phase 1 for another 5 hour test spin.
>> He purchased the flying RV, so he is not the builder of the aircraft and does not have the repairman certificate.
>> In this scenario, what is the process of putting the airplane back in Phase 1 testing? As the owner who is not the builder, can he create the logbook entry resubmitting it into Phase 1 and then take it back out? Or could that be done by and A&P/IA? Or does that require a visit to the FSDO?
>> I’m unclear how the process works if you’re not the builder with a repairman certificate.
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>






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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1626
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Returning to Phase 1? Reply with quote

I had occasion to talk to my FAAST maintenance coordinator yesterday,
and he confirmed that the Part 43 Appendix A is the determining guidance
as to major, minor modifications. Also, that FSDO needs to be notified
of the modification, and will determine how many hours of Phase I flight
test is needed. One wrinkle that I need to check out, is where the
modification is major, but is offered as an option by the kit
manufacturer. On certificated aircraft, optional equipment that would
otherwise be major, if offered as an option, is approved and can be
installed by log book entry. For instance, say Mooney offered a plane
with a McCauley prop one year, and a Hartzell the next year without
changing the engine model number, then you could change from one to the
other with log book entry. I'm thinking of something like you built the
plane with say a Garmin autopilot with just a roll servo, then later
decided to add a pitch servo, or had those two and decided to add a yaw
damper. Vans came out with that option after we got our kits. Perhaps
that may or may not need additional Phase I flight test. I'm going to
check tomorrow.
Kelly

On 4/12/2019 7:40 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
Quote:


Good insight.

Might be worth a phone call to the FSDO to see if this is something that can be done via email rather than making the trip up in person. (Almost 2hrs away)

Thanks for the congrats. A little clarification, I’m sitting on the Chapter Advisory Council rather than homebuilt council. I’d always be willing to chat with you folks on ideas and issues that I might be able to bring back to the chapters office at OSH. I’m not an EAA employee, but do have the ear of a few folks in the chapters office and I’m happy to help chapters do their thing.

Phil





> On Apr 12, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Now that you are involved with the Homebuilt Council, (congratulations), I'm sure Vic Syracuse can give you a better explanation than I can. Ditto Mel Asberry.
> Lets start with maintenance and modification. Examine the operating limitations for the aircraft in question. They will say what has to be done for a major modification. Typically, notify the FSDO and if the plane is in same area as original phase I, do 5 hours test flying. If plane is now in different FSDO area, request new test area.
> As for doing the work...there is no license needed, not repairman nor A&P. The only time a license is needed is for performing the condition inspection. As for logbook, enter description of work done, state a Phase I test period was done and completed. When the the FSDO is notified, they may assign a different test period or may want to modify the test area. There is no entry for placing a plane in Phase I, only an entry for completion of Phase I.
> You don't state the type of modification...you use the guidance in Part 43, Appendix A for making the determination of whether it is major. Prop model change or engine change definitely is. Adding a Yaw damper to an RV may or may not be. It will take a few hours of calibration flights anyway. One can consult with the FSDO if in doubt.
>
>> On 4/12/2019 4:55 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> I am helping a friend do some work on his airplane and we are considering making some modifications that could put the airplane back in Phase 1 for another 5 hour test spin.
>> He purchased the flying RV, so he is not the builder of the aircraft and does not have the repairman certificate.
>> In this scenario, what is the process of putting the airplane back in Phase 1 testing? As the owner who is not the builder, can he create the logbook entry resubmitting it into Phase 1 and then take it back out? Or could that be done by and A&P/IA? Or does that require a visit to the FSDO?
>> I’m unclear how the process works if you’re not the builder with a repairman certificate.
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>






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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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