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Hot starts

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motoadve

Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject: Hot starts

Cold starts, plane starts immediately, its a long process but its working every time.

16 blades, 2 priming, 3 blades, 2 priming , 3 blades 2 priming, 3 blades, starts with half rotation of prop, first try, thorttle is set at middle.



Warm engine after 10 minutes fueling or 1 hrs lunch.

6 blades, 2 priming, try to start nothing, 2 priming more, nothing, 2 more prop kicks back, 2 more , nothing until it eventually starts.

Throttle is set at middle.



Cold start is working but warm start is not working.



Any good tips for warm starts?

_________________
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6

jonboede(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:53 pm Post subject: Hot starts

Little less throttle, fewer primes, and more wobble pump. 



The Housoi likes to start cold and it likes to start hot, but that 15 minutes to 60 minutes period after shutdown, it gets grumpy. If I’m at a self-service fuel pump I try to minimize the time because if you dawdle it seems to slip to the worst of the warm zone where it just seems “tight” and doesn’t want to start. 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 10, 2019, at 12:01 AM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:

 

 

 

 Cold starts, plane starts immediately, its a long process but its working every time.

 16 blades, 2 priming, 3 blades, 2 priming , 3 blades 2 priming, 3 blades, starts with half rotation of prop, first try, thorttle is set at middle.

 

 Warm engine after 10 minutes fueling or 1 hrs lunch.

 6 blades, 2 priming, try to start nothing, 2 priming more, nothing, 2 more prop kicks back, 2 more , nothing until it eventually starts.

 Throttle is set at middle.

 

 Cold start is working but warm start is not working.

 

 Any good tips for warm starts?

 

 --------

 www.Backcountry182.com

 Cessna 182 P

 CJ -6

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490175#490175

romaine_richard(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:51 pm Post subject: Hot starts

My CJ likes this at the fuel pump...shutdown directly from idle throttle and leave it there.  On restart no prime or wobble, just pump the throttle during start until it catches.



..or it could be the incantations I chant.



Rich



Sent from my iPhone

Clouddog

Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Lebanon, TN

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:24 am Post subject: Hot starts

I'd be worn out priming two pulling two, priming two pulling two.  I think everyone has their own deal on starting their particular engines hot or cold.



Again referring to Chinese  manual. After you have pulled your engine through minimum 9 blades for hydraulic lock check, in summer 5-6 slow primes (pull up slowly on the prime knob to allow fuel to be pulled into the chamber) then pull through 5-6 times. In winter, 7-9 primes and pull through 7-9 times. Throttle set 1" +/- forward of idle in both cases. Before starting, pull up on the primer and as you hit the start button, push the primer back down.  In both cases you will want to see excess fuel drippng from your clean kit drain ( if you have one and if not, WHY NOT) before you start pulling you blades after the priming.

Everyone is going to have their own refinement on starting especially  with number of primes, blade pulls and throttle position.  I am only saying what works for me and my engine. And for those that have electric primers, they may have a totally different  primming procedure proceedure!

Good luck 

Greg Wrobel

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 00:00 motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>

 

 Cold starts, plane starts immediately, its a long process but its working every time.

 16 blades, 2 priming, 3 blades, 2 priming , 3 blades 2 priming, 3 blades, starts with half rotation of prop, first try, thorttle is set at middle.

 

 Warm engine after 10 minutes fueling or 1 hrs lunch.

 6 blades, 2 priming, try to start nothing, 2 priming more, nothing, 2 more prop kicks back, 2 more , nothing until it eventually starts.

 Throttle is set at middle.

 

 Cold start is working but warm start is not working.

 

 Any good tips for warm starts?

 

 --------

 www.Backcountry182.com

 Cessna 182 P

 CJ -6

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490175#490175

 

 

 

 

 

 

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captPod

Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: Hot starts

Use less prime to start a warm engine. If I taxi to fuel after flight and start right away I do not prime and it starts immediately. After an hour it will need just a little prime. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:54, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:

 

 

 

 Cold starts, plane starts immediately, its a long process but its working every time.

 16 blades, 2 priming, 3 blades, 2 priming , 3 blades 2 priming, 3 blades, starts with half rotation of prop, first try, thorttle is set at middle.

 

 Warm engine after 10 minutes fueling or 1 hrs lunch.

 6 blades, 2 priming, try to start nothing, 2 priming more, nothing, 2 more prop kicks back, 2 more , nothing until it eventually starts.

 Throttle is set at middle.

 

 Cold start is working but warm start is not working.

 

 Any good tips for warm starts?

 

 --------

 www.Backcountry182.com

 Cessna 182 P

 CJ -6

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490175#490175

markbitterlich(at)embarqm
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: Hot starts

One time this will occur is if you are using Western spark plugs and have

them gapped too wide.  Starts cold perfectly, but difficult to start warm.

.018 to .022, but personally I never go bigger than .020   Caution about

pumping the throttle to start.  As you run your air supply lower and lower,

you stand a better chance of getting a small backfire which can come right

back through the supercharger and ignite excess fuel in the carb.  It blows

out a nice blast of flame and unburnt fuel.   Ask me how I know this.  



Mark

 



--

motoadve

Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Seattle

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Hot starts

[quote="captPod"]Use less prime to start a warm engine. If I taxi to fuel after flight and start right away I do not prime and it starts immediately. After an hour it will need just a little prime. 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:54, motoadve <motoadve> wrote:

 

 

 

 e] 	




This method worked nicely today after fueling and stopping for 10 minutes.

Started first try , no priming but lots of time on the starter button and any prop revolutions before it started.

_________________
www.Backcountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6

Clouddog

Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 117
Location: Lebanon, TN

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:48 am Post subject: Hot starts

Work with your engine. Try a few different techniques. Learn what works for YOUR engine during different scenarios. Hot, cold, winter, Sumner, different elevations etc. You will eventually discover what works best. If you gave that many revolutions on the prop before it started, sounded like you didn't have enough fuel. Did you wobble?? Also a shot of prime while you are pushing the start button can help.

Greg Wrobel

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 22:40 motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>

 [quote="captPod"]Use less prime to start a warm engine. If I taxi to fuel after flight and start right away I do not prime and it starts immediately. After an hour it will need just a little prime. 

 Sent from my iPhone

 >  On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:54, motoadve  wrote:

 >  

 >  

 >  

 >  e]

 This method worked nicely today after fueling and stopping for 10 minutes.

 Started first try , no priming but lots of time on the starter button and any prop revolutions before it started.

 --------

 www.Backcountry182.com

 Cessna 182 P

 CJ -6

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490202#490202

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captPod

Joined: 06 Jan 2014
Posts: 17

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:12 am Post subject: Hot starts

Mine starts in one to two prop blades. Experiment with your throttle position. 

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 11, 2019, at 11:35 PM, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:

 [quote="captPod"]Use less prime to start a warm engine. If I taxi to fuel after flight and start right away I do not prime and it starts immediately. After an hour it will need just a little prime. 

 Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:54, motoadve  wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> e]

 This method worked nicely today after fueling and stopping for 10 minutes.

 Started first try , no priming but lots of time on the starter button and any prop revolutions before it started.

 --------

 www.Backcountry182.com

 Cessna 182 P

 CJ -6

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490202#490202

jay-dub

Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Hot starts

I find priming as for the M14 works. 1 prime for every 10 degrees of CHT below 100. To be fair, if it’s over 80 degrees it generally starts without.

_________________
CJ owner

stephen.hayne

Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Posts: 59
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Hot starts

I had my first "hot" start issue with my 'chang.  I now have 100+ hours in it, so not a total newbie, still learning tho, of course.



When "cold" it starts great with the normal priming procedure described by others.  After fueling, it starts beautifully without any priming.  At RedStar events, I've not had trouble starting it on the ramp after training flights on hot days (Lamar, CO where the ramp is in the 80s).  At Young Eagles events, no trouble starting after 15-20 minutes of ground time (5x flights).



However, a couple days ago, I flew to Pueblo from Fort Collins (150 miles) in the morning to attend some meetings - a 1 hr flight is MUCH better than 4 hours on the road each way through Denver!  Refueled immediately upon landing at self-serve, fired up, taxiied to tie-down.  No problem.  But it wouldn't start a few hours later... read on, or not, if you're bored by now.



So, after the meetings, the ramp was 100'ish degrees (3:30 in the afternoon), I used the normal prime (5 shots - even though I just read Jay's 100 degree algorithm).  I have replaced the manual wobble pump with a properly sized faucet electric pump, and when activating it for pressure, it didn't seem to give me as much needle movement as I have come to expect, but the sound changed and I thought that meant I had gotten some pressure.



Just wouldn't fire.  3 attempts used up almost all my air.  No spare scuba bottle (back at the hangar).  No adapter hose (back at the hangar).  This was my first flight a fair distance away where I wasn't meeting Yak/Chang pilots.  2 FBOs, but nothing they could do without my adapter, I'm sure.



Anyway, a fellow 'chang owner, from 50 miles away, flew over with a bottle and his adapter (what a great community we have!).  We recharged, primed 1 shot, 1 blade, for 5 blades, and it fired right up.  Flew home without any issues.  



Some gurus I called while waiting suggested I check my shower of sparks (buzzed fine), and of course, my left mag WAS operational (possible failure point), etc.



Bottom line, I am installing the spare scuba bottle, carrying a bag with more tools and the adapter in it... 



And, I am going to be very careful about priming and vapor lock (if that is what it was), after heat-soaked sitting on the ramp, in the future!

_________________
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Stephen Hayne, Cyber Security Consultant, Professor Emeritus (retired)
443LM Nanchang CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp

Ttail

Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 118

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hot starts

Look at the Paintball tank option. Small pumped up to 4500psi will get you to 38KGcm2 from an empty tank. Easy to carry around.



Compressor via Ali Babba cost me around US $350

LawnDart

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 64

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Hot starts

Mostly, it has been said.

- less prime

- less throttle

- learn what your engine prefers



On a hot engine, I would not prime it at all.  1/4 throttle or less, pump for pressure (no prime) and hit the button.  If it does not start in 3 blades, stop.  Add 2 primes and hit it again.  That is a starting point.  Mine hot starts every time with no prime and just a little throttle.  A quite calm event compared to the cold start.

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