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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:39 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:01 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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Hi Phil,
I would recommend against such a procedure. The options I would
consider is to either add a quart of MMO, then warm engine up or a
single trip around the pattern.
Other method would be to do oil change, then add recommended amount of
Camguard, and fly for a short # of hours, say 15-20, before drain and
repeat. Cessna 170s did not come with an oil filter, only a screen.
The problem with using something like mineral spirits is that it
seriously degrades the lubricity of the oil. MMO has a little bit better
lubricity.
Were supposed to get 25 hour changes. They have a magnesium oil sump,
which tends to collect moisture around the two oil drains and corrode
the sump. There is no approved repair, especially if it corrodes enough
to leak.
What type of rings it has matters as well. A lot of them with overhauls
30-40 years ago got chrome cylinders with cast iron rings. Even those
with standard rings have a tendency as they get higher time to break one
or more compression rings. This includes both C170s and C172s with the
O-300 engine.
Given that tendency, I would be careful with how diluted the oil might
be. (yes I had it happen in both my 170 and a flying club 172.) You
would not want to flush varnish and sludge out of the ring lands too fast.
Kelly
On 11/16/2020 7:38 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
| Quote: |
I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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I don’t have a copy of the procedure, but our mechanics use that here once in a while. They just told me about it a couple months ago. It wasn’t just mineral spirits, but a couple other chemicals to I believe. Let me see if I can find out from them.
Tim
| Quote: | On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 PM, Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:21 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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I just asked one of the mechanics. He was happy to talk because he has Covid, along with his brother and another person at the FBO. They’re going stir crazy. He said it is 1 quart of MEK, 1 quart of xylene, 1 quart of hundredweight oil, and 2 quarts of mineral spirits. That’s what they remember off the top of their head.
Hope that helps.
Tim
| Quote: | On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:06 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
I don’t have a copy of the procedure, but our mechanics use that here once in a while. They just told me about it a couple months ago. It wasn’t just mineral spirits, but a couple other chemicals to I believe. Let me see if I can find out from them.
Tim
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 PM, Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
>
> It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
>
> Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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Kelly,
I’ve never done this before so my questions my be bad.
I do know though that they don’t run the engine with this mixture. It’s put in the cylinder through the spark plug holes on the compression stroke and squeezed through the rings. Then drained and you change oil a couple times and go on the way. Does that change your opinion of it? From your reply it sounded like maybe you expected it to be added to the oil?
Tim
| Quote: | On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
Hi Phil,
I would recommend against such a procedure. The options I would consider is to either add a quart of MMO, then warm engine up or a single trip around the pattern.
Other method would be to do oil change, then add recommended amount of Camguard, and fly for a short # of hours, say 15-20, before drain and repeat. Cessna 170s did not come with an oil filter, only a screen.
The problem with using something like mineral spirits is that it seriously degrades the lubricity of the oil. MMO has a little bit better lubricity.
Were supposed to get 25 hour changes. They have a magnesium oil sump, which tends to collect moisture around the two oil drains and corrode the sump. There is no approved repair, especially if it corrodes enough to leak.
What type of rings it has matters as well. A lot of them with overhauls 30-40 years ago got chrome cylinders with cast iron rings. Even those with standard rings have a tendency as they get higher time to break one or more compression rings. This includes both C170s and C172s with the O-300 engine.
Given that tendency, I would be careful with how diluted the oil might be. (yes I had it happen in both my 170 and a flying club 172.) You would not want to flush varnish and sludge out of the ring lands too fast.
Kelly
> On 11/16/2020 7:38 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
>
> I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
> It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
> Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
> Phil
> Sent from my iPhone
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:30 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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That sounds correct, Tim.
I have a procedure fir it somewhere but haven’t found it. Appreciate the info (and thoughts Kelly).
I’m going to dig around a bit more and if I can find it, I’ll pass it along.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:48 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
Kelly,
I’ve never done this before so my questions my be bad.
I do know though that they don’t run the engine with this mixture. It’s put in the cylinder through the spark plug holes on the compression stroke and squeezed through the rings. Then drained and you change oil a couple times and go on the way. Does that change your opinion of it? From your reply it sounded like maybe you expected it to be added to the oil?
Tim
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Phil,
> I would recommend against such a procedure. The options I would consider is to either add a quart of MMO, then warm engine up or a single trip around the pattern.
> Other method would be to do oil change, then add recommended amount of Camguard, and fly for a short # of hours, say 15-20, before drain and repeat. Cessna 170s did not come with an oil filter, only a screen.
> The problem with using something like mineral spirits is that it seriously degrades the lubricity of the oil. MMO has a little bit better lubricity.
> Were supposed to get 25 hour changes. They have a magnesium oil sump, which tends to collect moisture around the two oil drains and corrode the sump. There is no approved repair, especially if it corrodes enough to leak.
> What type of rings it has matters as well. A lot of them with overhauls 30-40 years ago got chrome cylinders with cast iron rings. Even those with standard rings have a tendency as they get higher time to break one or more compression rings. This includes both C170s and C172s with the O-300 engine.
> Given that tendency, I would be careful with how diluted the oil might be. (yes I had it happen in both my 170 and a flying club 172.) You would not want to flush varnish and sludge out of the ring lands too fast.
>
> Kelly
>
>>> On 11/16/2020 7:38 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
>>
>> I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
>> It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
>> Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
>> Phil
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: Engine Flush |
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Tim,
I could see someone trying to run the engine. However, even in the case
that they did as prescribed, those are very strong chemicals and by the
time you do all six, parts of the engine will not be lubricated, and
sludge, varnish etc tend to loosen and come out unpredictably. IMHO it
would be much safer to do 25 hour changes with normal oil and a dose of
Camguard. It will do a lot to clean inside the engine without ever
subjecting it to poor lubrication. The other thing it that the only time
something like that might be warranted is if there are known stuck
rings. Otherwise you are just increasing ring land gaps putting more
stress on the rings.
Kelly
On 11/16/2020 8:42 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
Kelly,
I’ve never done this before so my questions my be bad.
I do know though that they don’t run the engine with this mixture. It’s put in the cylinder through the spark plug holes on the compression stroke and squeezed through the rings. Then drained and you change oil a couple times and go on the way. Does that change your opinion of it? From your reply it sounded like maybe you expected it to be added to the oil?
Tim
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Phil,
> I would recommend against such a procedure. The options I would consider is to either add a quart of MMO, then warm engine up or a single trip around the pattern.
> Other method would be to do oil change, then add recommended amount of Camguard, and fly for a short # of hours, say 15-20, before drain and repeat. Cessna 170s did not come with an oil filter, only a screen.
> The problem with using something like mineral spirits is that it seriously degrades the lubricity of the oil. MMO has a little bit better lubricity.
> Were supposed to get 25 hour changes. They have a magnesium oil sump, which tends to collect moisture around the two oil drains and corrode the sump. There is no approved repair, especially if it corrodes enough to leak.
> What type of rings it has matters as well. A lot of them with overhauls 30-40 years ago got chrome cylinders with cast iron rings. Even those with standard rings have a tendency as they get higher time to break one or more compression rings. This includes both C170s and C172s with the O-300 engine.
> Given that tendency, I would be careful with how diluted the oil might be. (yes I had it happen in both my 170 and a flying club 172.) You would not want to flush varnish and sludge out of the ring lands too fast.
>
> Kelly
>
>> On 11/16/2020 7:38 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
>>
>> I have a friend who just bought a C-170 and he’s wanting to flush the engine to remove any sludge and deposits around the piston rings.
>> It seems like (5 ish) years ago there was a post with this procedure. Something along the lines of drain the oil. Put the each piston on a compression stroke. Pour mineral spirits into the cyl, then pull the piston up with the prop allowing mineral spirits to pass through the rings and ultimately into the sump - where it’s drained.
>> Does anyone have a copy of that procedure? I’d like to give it to him if I can find a copy of it.
>> Phil
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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