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Priming Question - When To Do

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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Hi  

   

One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.  

   

Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.  

   

Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10   

#40643 – lost in the empennage  

       [quote][b]

armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Less heartache when you scratch your prime job and then have to recoat.  I wait until after I’m done fooling with the pieces to prime.  

   

Rob Wright  

#392  

Fuse Access Covers (Sec 35)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:22 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Priming Question - When To Do  

  

   

Hi  

   

One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.  

   

Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.  

   

Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10   

#40643 – lost in the empennage   	  Quote: 	
		    www.aeroelectric.com 	
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       [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Les, so as not to start a rekindle of the primer wars and Egg wars of past.  Many locales have low humidity or lack of ocean influence.  In Oregon, home of VANS, we are usually above 80% relative humidity for up to six months.  Right now its above 90% and going for 100%.  Aircraft are stored long term in Mesa, Marana, and Tucson for a reason.  

   

Moisture, hydrocarbons, phosphate cleaning compounds, acid rain all help to start the galvanic process.  Some builders are investing the time and materials to create Classic Antique Homebuilts.  Others don’t care.  To each their own.  Alodine brings benefits and risks which need to be understood.  Zinc Chromate Primer used to be a common staple.  Kelly can pipe in on this, but there was a long series of Cessna Spam Cans which suffered filiform corrosion under beautiful topcoats which took twenty years to surface.  Seems leaving the aircraft out overnight in the Midwest dew carried a long-term cost even during the summer.  Most of us will never see a paint stripping and repaint in our kit’s lifetime.  

   

I have seen more Vans primer jobs pealing due to improper solvent cleaning than I have ever seen damage from lack of primer.  On the other hand, amphibs get the protection during construction for a reason. Once corrosion starts it’s a really memorable Bear to remove. You choose.  Choose wisely for your application, budget and timing schedule.  I have a reprieve from Deems till 2020 to get finished so I am comfortable with my decision.  

   

On a separate note, Paul Grimstad and I may head up there this winter to visit and let you know the Oregon delegation moves slowly “All year long” but supports your efforts – North of the border.  

     

John Cox 

 #40600   

Do not archive out of respect for Matt’s server  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 8:22 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Priming Question - When To Do  

  

   

Hi  

   

One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.  

   

Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.  

   

Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10   

#40643 – lost in the empennage  [quote]   [b]

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Les,

  

 Here is why I prime as the last step.

  

 -    Avoids a lot of scratches on the primer.

  

 -    The conversion coating/ primer gets around the perimeter of the holes which is a likely location for corrosion to start.

  

 -    The primed surface stays cleaner as its not handled as much.

  

 -    Sometimes dimpling a primed surface debonds the primer.

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before priming.  Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up.  It helps to use the scotchbrite before dimpling, then priming as the last step before final assembly.  

   

Do not archive.  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko

 Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 6:13 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Priming Question - When To Do  

  

       

Les,  

    

   

    

Here is why I prime as the last step.  

    

   

    

-    Avoids a lot of scratches on the primer.  

    

   

    

-    The conversion coating/ primer gets around the perimeter of the holes which is a likely location for corrosion to start.  

    

   

    

-    The primed surface stays cleaner as its not handled as much.  

    

   

    

-    Sometimes dimpling a primed surface debonds the primer.  

    

   

    

Niko  

    

40188  

    

----- Original Message ----

 From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:21:53 PM

 Subject: Priming Question - When To Do    

Hi  

   

One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.  

   

Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.  

   

Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?  

   

Inquiring minds need to know  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10   

#40643 – lost in the empennage  

   	  Quote: 	
		  ttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbobuiltHELP http://www.matronics.com/contribution</A> 	


    



 

   

  

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 12/8/2006 12:53 PM

     [quote][b]

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  For those who are    priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before    priming.  Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use    scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff  up. 	


 

     Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric  Acid.  This is much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough.  Spray  on, rinse off, Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired. 

  

 Steve

  

 do not archive

  [quote][b]

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

I scuffed my parts with scotchbrite even when I alodined them.  Probably

didn't need to though, but it's still good to wipe them with something

to degrease them to allow the etch to get to it better.



When I had items that I did not alodine, like some skins, I used a 4"x4"

electric palm sander, with 1/2 sheet (fit just perfectly) of scotchbrite

pad instead of a sanding pad.  That made very quick and even work out

of scuffing skins for primer prep, and the akzo then stuck to it really

well.



Worked for me.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 

 jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:

 

     For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of

     scuffing before priming.  Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for

     those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up.

 

     Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric Acid.  This is 

 much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough.  Spray on, rinse off, 

 Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired.

  

 Steve

  

 do not archive

 

 *

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Steve, excellent  post.  Scotchbrite physically marks (abraids) the alclad which is only 5%  of the total material thickness.  0.025" T = 0.00125" pure aluminum on the  each outside surface. Aggression when using scotchbrite (red) pads often goes  clear through to the base material.  Properly mixed and applied phosphoric  acid chemically etches the Alclad leaving it receptive to an adhesion bond to  the applied primer.

  

 We tend to clean with Alcohol or MEK, apply  Phosphoric acid for up to 2 minutes, then fresh water rinse.  Apply Alodine  for 2-5 minutes max, then fresh water rinse again.

  

 Read and understand the MSDS sheet for the  products being used.  Wear protective clothing. Visit Tim's site for the  process he followed.

 http://www.myrv10.com/tips/paint/alodining.html

 

John Cox 

  



 [quote]         From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 5:03    PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List:    Priming Question - When To Do

   

      In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,    jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  For those who are      priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before      priming.  Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use      scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff    up. 	


   

       Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric    Acid.  This is much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough.  Spray    on, rinse off, Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired. 

    

   Steve

    

   do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



	
[b]

dvanwinkle(at)royell.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Jesse and Steve

  

 After match drilling and deburring, I scuff with scotchbrite  and then dimple so all the dimples are uniformly scuffed before priming and the  scotchbrite doesn't catch on the flat deburred holes.

  

 Dean Van Winkle

 RV-9A Fus/Finish/FWF

 [quote]   ---

KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do

Good tip on the scotchbrite before  dimpling.

  

 Kevin

40494

tail/empennage

  

 do not archive

  	  Quote: 	
		     Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 4:28    PM

   Subject: RE: Priming Question    - When To Do

   



      

For those who are    priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before    priming.  Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use    scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up.  It helps to use the    scotchbrite before dimpling, then priming as the last step before final    assembly.   

    

Do not    archive.   

       

Jesse    Saint



	
    [quote][b]

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

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