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kearney(at)shaw.ca Guest
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Hi
One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.
Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.
Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
RV10
#40643 – lost in the empennage
[quote][b]
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armywrights(at)adelphia.n Guest
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Less heartache when you scratch your prime job and then have to recoat. I wait until after I’m done fooling with the pieces to prime.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse Access Covers (Sec 35)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Priming Question - When To Do
Hi
One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.
Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.
Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
RV10
#40643 – lost in the empennage Quote: | www.aeroelectric.com | 0123456789012345
[quote][b]
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 1149 Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Les, so as not to start a rekindle of the primer wars and Egg wars of past. Many locales have low humidity or lack of ocean influence. In Oregon, home of VANS, we are usually above 80% relative humidity for up to six months. Right now its above 90% and going for 100%. Aircraft are stored long term in Mesa, Marana, and Tucson for a reason.
Moisture, hydrocarbons, phosphate cleaning compounds, acid rain all help to start the galvanic process. Some builders are investing the time and materials to create Classic Antique Homebuilts. Others don’t care. To each their own. Alodine brings benefits and risks which need to be understood. Zinc Chromate Primer used to be a common staple. Kelly can pipe in on this, but there was a long series of Cessna Spam Cans which suffered filiform corrosion under beautiful topcoats which took twenty years to surface. Seems leaving the aircraft out overnight in the Midwest dew carried a long-term cost even during the summer. Most of us will never see a paint stripping and repaint in our kit’s lifetime.
I have seen more Vans primer jobs pealing due to improper solvent cleaning than I have ever seen damage from lack of primer. On the other hand, amphibs get the protection during construction for a reason. Once corrosion starts it’s a really memorable Bear to remove. You choose. Choose wisely for your application, budget and timing schedule. I have a reprieve from Deems till 2020 to get finished so I am comfortable with my decision.
On a separate note, Paul Grimstad and I may head up there this winter to visit and let you know the Oregon delegation moves slowly “All year long” but supports your efforts – North of the border.
John Cox
#40600
Do not archive out of respect for Matt’s server
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 8:22 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Priming Question - When To Do
Hi
One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.
Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.
Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
RV10
#40643 – lost in the empennage [quote] [b]
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owl40188(at)yahoo.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Les,
Here is why I prime as the last step.
- Avoids a lot of scratches on the primer.
- The conversion coating/ primer gets around the perimeter of the holes which is a likely location for corrosion to start.
- The primed surface stays cleaner as its not handled as much.
- Sometimes dimpling a primed surface debonds the primer.
Niko
40188
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jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before priming. Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up. It helps to use the scotchbrite before dimpling, then priming as the last step before final assembly.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 6:13 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Priming Question - When To Do
Les,
Here is why I prime as the last step.
- Avoids a lot of scratches on the primer.
- The conversion coating/ primer gets around the perimeter of the holes which is a likely location for corrosion to start.
- The primed surface stays cleaner as its not handled as much.
- Sometimes dimpling a primed surface debonds the primer.
Niko
40188
----- Original Message ----
From: Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:21:53 PM
Subject: Priming Question - When To Do
Hi
One of the things I have been doing during my empennage construction process is to clean / deburr and prep all parts prior to initial assembly and match drilling. After drilling, I deburr all holes drilled and then proceed to final assembly and riveting.
Reading other posts, I believe that others prime as a last step before assembly & riveting.
Is there any compelling reason to prefer one way over the other?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
RV10
#40643 – lost in the empennage
0123456789012345678
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12/8/2006 12:53 PM
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12/8/2006 12:53 PM
[quote][b]
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LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:
Quote: | For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before priming. Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up. |
Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric Acid. This is much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough. Spray on, rinse off, Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired.
Steve
do not archive
[quote][b]
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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I scuffed my parts with scotchbrite even when I alodined them. Probably
didn't need to though, but it's still good to wipe them with something
to degrease them to allow the etch to get to it better.
When I had items that I did not alodine, like some skins, I used a 4"x4"
electric palm sander, with 1/2 sheet (fit just perfectly) of scotchbrite
pad instead of a sanding pad. That made very quick and even work out
of scuffing skins for primer prep, and the akzo then stuck to it really
well.
Worked for me.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote:
Quote: | In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:
For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of
scuffing before priming. Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for
those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up.
Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric Acid. This is
much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough. Spray on, rinse off,
Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired.
Steve
do not archive
*
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 1149 Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Steve, excellent post. Scotchbrite physically marks (abraids) the alclad which is only 5% of the total material thickness. 0.025" T = 0.00125" pure aluminum on the each outside surface. Aggression when using scotchbrite (red) pads often goes clear through to the base material. Properly mixed and applied phosphoric acid chemically etches the Alclad leaving it receptive to an adhesion bond to the applied primer.
We tend to clean with Alcohol or MEK, apply Phosphoric acid for up to 2 minutes, then fresh water rinse. Apply Alodine for 2-5 minutes max, then fresh water rinse again.
Read and understand the MSDS sheet for the products being used. Wear protective clothing. Visit Tim's site for the process he followed.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/paint/alodining.html
John Cox
[quote] From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 5:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Priming Question - When To Do
In a message dated 12/11/06 7:36:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jesse(at)itecusa.org writes:
Quote: | For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before priming. Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up. |
Before Alodine, the surface is etched with Phosphoric Acid. This is much kinder vs. scotchbrite and more thorough. Spray on, rinse off, Alodine, rinse, dry. Primer if desired.
Steve
do not archive
Quote: |
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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dvanwinkle(at)royell.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Jesse and Steve
After match drilling and deburring, I scuff with scotchbrite and then dimple so all the dimples are uniformly scuffed before priming and the scotchbrite doesn't catch on the flat deburred holes.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fus/Finish/FWF
[quote] ---
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KiloPapa
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 142 Location: Pearblossom, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: Priming Question - When To Do |
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Good tip on the scotchbrite before dimpling.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive
Quote: | Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: Priming Question - When To Do
For those who are priming, I assume that you are doing some sort of scuffing before priming. Maybe the Alodine does the trick, but for those who use scotchbrite, the dimples really tear that stuff up. It helps to use the scotchbrite before dimpling, then priming as the last step before final assembly.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
| [quote][b]
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________ Kevin
40494
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