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Van's Motor Mount SB

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mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Is there anything these guys like about Vans?  Seems like there are 66+ of 

us out there flying RV-10's that are very pleased with the kit and the 

support we have received from Vans.



Mark (N410MR Flying)





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Van's  Motor Mount SB

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:49:57 -0500






I,m so glad Van's issued that SB.  I was getting tired of the counterweight 

discussion....  hehehe



John Hasbrouck

#40264

currently installing JATO bottles


	


_________________________________________________________________

FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo – buy and sell with people 

you know

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Michael,



Got anything positive to say about a great kit?  A few more tacky comments 

like this and we can consider the source.



Mark (N410MR Flying)





[quote]From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Van's  Motor Mount SB

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:49:38 -0600




<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



   The short version is Van's was hit with a lawsuit around similar items

in the past.  They made modifications to the RV-10 mount in the past

because their mockup was wrong.  When they realized that Deems issue was

because of the cold air sump, and others were in the pipeline, they kept

their word to Deems and then issued the SB stopping any future

modifications.  Good thing Tim didn't let them know he had a Lightspeed

ignition on his when he sent it back for modification, might be

producing more than 260HP.



Michael



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

That's quite a leap from some complaints about a couple specific things.

I guess we should just bow to Van's ability to tell us how things should

be and be happy with that?  Some people want improvements and some

people are content to follow the plans and recommendations to the T.

Nothing wrong with either method.



Michael

Fitting the supercharger

Do not archive 



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

I'm sorry, what exactly was tacky about this.  It's basically what Scott

Risen told me on the phone this morning.



Do not archive



--

jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Mark

     Seems to me that Van's is simply saying that they will provide one 

motor mount that works with the engines they have available ( and many other 

Lycomings as well ) but don't expect them to modify it if it doesn't work 

for a particular engine.  That's the builders responsibility.  Never in the 

Service LETTER ( not bulletin ) is the word prohibited used.  Van's doesn't 

recommend 260+ HP but you can do whatever you want.  It's experimental, 

you're the builder, have at it.  Hang a PT6 on the nose if you want but 

Van's isn't going to offer any help.  As it should be IMHO.  The DAR is not 

responsible for your choices of modifications either only that they are 

installed according to generally accepted practice and conform to W & B 

specs.  He'll sign off on the PT6, give you a 40 hour flyoff, a look of 

concern and if you haven't killed yourself in that time you can continue to 

phase 2.  That's the great thing about the experimental category.  Indeed 

this is a great kit and the fact that 60+ are flying so soon after initial 

introduction proves it...



John Hasbrouck

#40264

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Michael,



"Good thing Tim didn't let them know he has a Lightspeed ignition on his 

when he sent it back for modification, might be producing more than 260 HP" 

seems a bit over the edge and close to being tacky.



I'm just happy I don't have as many as folks telling me how to run my 

business as Van seems to have regarding this last motor mount war.



I built my Rv-10 with the motto "if it dosesn't fit make it fit" after all 

you are the builder.



Mark





[quote]From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Van's Motor Mount SB

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:37:51 -0600




<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



I'm sorry, what exactly was tacky about this.  It's basically what Scott

Risen told me on the phone this morning.



Do not archive



--

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

John,



Well put.



Mark





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck(at)woh.rr.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Van's Motor Mount SB

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:57:52 -0500






Mark

     Seems to me that Van's is simply saying that they will provide one 

motor mount that works with the engines they have available ( and many 

other Lycomings as well ) but don't expect them to modify it if it doesn't 

work for a particular engine.  That's the builders responsibility.  Never 

in the Service LETTER ( not bulletin ) is the word prohibited used.  Van's 

doesn't recommend 260+ HP but you can do whatever you want.  It's 

experimental, you're the builder, have at it.  Hang a PT6 on the nose if 

you want but Van's isn't going to offer any help.  As it should be IMHO.  

The DAR is not responsible for your choices of modifications either only 

that they are installed according to generally accepted practice and 

conform to W & B specs.  He'll sign off on the PT6, give you a 40 hour 

flyoff, a look of concern and if you haven't killed yourself in that time 

you can continue to phase 2.  That's the great thing about the experimental 

category.  Indeed this is a great kit and the fact that 60+ are flying so 

soon after initial introduction proves it...



John Hasbrouck

#40264


	


_________________________________________________________________

The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here.  Get all the scoop. 

http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

It seems to me that its the sellers choice as to whether or not they 

implement "suggested improvements" to their product.  The market place will 

eventually decide the issue.   We do have the ability to make what we 

consider to be  improvements during the building process. Most of us have 

made numerous changes (improvements) and keep on trucking without berating 

Van for not doing it first.  The basic kit is a great starting point to 

built whatever comes to mind.



Mark



[quote]From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Van's Motor Mount SB

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:35:48 -0600




<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



That's quite a leap from some complaints about a couple specific things.

I guess we should just bow to Van's ability to tell us how things should

be and be happy with that?  Some people want improvements and some

people are content to follow the plans and recommendations to the T.

Nothing wrong with either method.



Michael

Fitting the supercharger

Do not archive



--

deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Some folks should simply buy airplanes and not try to build them!



--

deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Van's should incorporate all the ideas and suggestions so that there are no 

complaints and price the kit around the $250K mark........



to much nonsense on the list, multiple replies from same listers on same 

subject, I'm leaving the list.



do not archive.

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Bye



Do not archive



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

You are absolutely correct and I believe I said I understand Van's

position. I take exception at how Van's worded the service bulletin and

the fact they did it solely for CYA and clearly targeting the Barrett

engine. Scott even told me it was nothing for his welder to make the

change.  Did I go over the edge with my earlier post, hardly.  If the

vendor had been making changes to their product to accommodate everyone

else and then stopped doing it when it got to you, I'm betting you would

be rather unhappy about it.  Not to mention the fact they still have my

mount there.  It was quite clear in later posts that the issue had been

resolved after talking to Van's and I respectfully told Scott that I

understand Van's position.  Van has a business and employees to protect

and I can 1000% understand that.



  Do they need to change their product, hell no.  Their choice.  I'm

just the consumer in a small production run product that feels

improvements can be made and have voiced that.  Van's monitors this list

and others so I like to think they are listening.  Can they change their

product with pretty much no additional work on their end, absolutely.

Would it make the life of many builders better, nooo but it would save

us some time and this is only going to become more of a problem if the

cold air is a popular option by Barrett and others.  There is obviously

a nice little cottage industry popping up to improve the fit and

function of the RV-10 and I think that's great.  Some people are in it

to make money and some are in it because they enjoy it.  Guys like John

see an excellent product but also see ways to improve it.  Hmmm, kinda

sounds like what Van did all those years ago.



  Now what does irritate me, and I'm usually smiling as I write emails

because I know not to take an email and read things into it, is that

there is always a few people that chime in and automatically try to

berate anyone that has an opinion that is opposite their own.  People

have a delete button and can exercise it at their will.  To chime in on

a thread just to insert a comment that implies something to an extreme

end of things adds no value.  Hmmm, sounds like politics.  Anyway, I

always take the time to hear people out and then I can agree or

disagree.  People that know me on this list know that I have a tendency

to call things like they are and don't pull punches.  Ya, ya, ya, I'm

building an airplane and need to make things work myself.  Last I

checked I'm doing a fair number of modifications so that dog don't hunt

anyway.  I am not, however, a certified aerospace welder so I can't

exactly modify my mount.  I worked with Scott Risan and Allen and came

up with a good solution that should help benefit the other builders out

there going with this option.  I'm happy with the solution and the

problem is solved.  And for those of you that feel that I hate Van's

products just because I voice my opinion on some of their less than

stellar components:



VANS, BY FAR, MAKE THE BEST AND MOST AFFORDABLE 4 PLACE, SINGLE ENGINE

AIRCRAFT IN EITHER THE KIT OR CERTIFIED MARKET!!!!! 



There I go with my opinions again.  



Michael

last thing I will say on this (open for cheap parting shots)



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Degenerates!



We were all degenates even before this motor mount issue. Remember we are 

all in the "Experimental Catagory"



Just give me parts that assemble correctly, run well and have low 

maintainence and I am one happy camper.



John G.

[quote]From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Van's  Motor Mount SB

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:46:44 -0500






There is good news for me though, all of us that are putting in

alternative engines are now lumped into the same category! Regardless if

it is a Subaru, an Aerosport or BPA, welcome to the dark side Ladies and

Gents, we have all been assimilated as those people putting alternative

engines in the 10.

Suddenly the pool got really crowded! "GRIN"

Dan

N289DT (RV10E) on the wild side and loving it!



--

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

RAS,



The list does have some redeeming values if you can delete the Van bashing 

and rant postings quickly.



Mark





[quote]From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Van's Motor Mount SB

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:56:55 -0600




<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>



Bye



Do not archive



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: Van's Motor Mount SB

Mark this would be a quiet list indeed with less red meat and bland

potatoes if everyone was a Kool-aid drinker.  Lively discussion only

requires an occasional  Delete Key or giving the baseless rants a quick

read.



I am hoping that most builders are seeking out the kernels of safety

features buried in the pile of posts which lead to safer statistics.  It

seems interesting that no one is wondering what details led to the 1999

incident/accident which is hitting the EAA membership with the 4 million

dollar insurance payout.  Oh well, the drugs in the Kool Aid are

working.



Someone had the foresight to ask if VAN was sweep into the widows

lawsuit since it was a stock - non modified RV6A. No one got an

answer.... "pass around that pitcher please."



John Cox



Do not Archive



--

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