 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: unbelievable |
 |
|
I would like to thank Wally at synergy for the 10 day course which my wife and I enjoyed.I would also like to thank the paid workers in the philipines who built the majority of my wings and fuse.Not to mention lancair avionics for my panel.I for one do not want the feds looking over my shoulder deciding if i meet the 51% rule on my 7 project.When we sign our application for airwortiness we sign under penalty of perjury that the aircraft was amateur built for our own purposes.If there are those out there bending the rules and it doesnt effect safety so be it.This may result in safer aircraft.Note the new light sport allows owners to do there own maintanance after a weekend course.I will continue to build my own aircraft because it is cheaper than psycotherapy.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: unbelievable |
|
|
One thing regarding the 51% rule... from what I understand, Panel
wiring, and Engine work, among other things, are specifically excluded
from being part of the rule, for the sole reason that you state below...
to allow for some of these specialized job to be done by a
person with those special skills. So when one thinks about an
organization or person violating the 51% rule, it really does
come down to mostly the airframe. My personal biggest problem
I'd have with any of the 51% violators would be if they actually
help the recipient of the aircraft obtain the repairman's certificate.
As you can tell from reading the various threads on this forum, even
some of the simplest tasks can launch into great discussions of
theory as to what is the proper/safest/strongest/most correct way to
complete a task. For the builder that just paid someone for the plane,
they couldn't possibly have as good a grasp as most of the people on
this forum will have. I personally would take offense to them
holding the repairmans certificate, because at that point they have
not done the diligence required to actually *know* their airframe
enough to qualify for the ability to inspect it. I think this
whole hunt for violators could be approached from the maintenance
and repairman's cert. end....a thorough interview is common before
granting the certificate. This should prevent anyone from not
having done a considerable amount of work in obtaining the certificate.
As a follow-on to that theory, if the buyer doesn't hold any
certificate, then their plane will need to be inspected by an
A&P....something that some A&P's may not even be willing to do
unless it meets very high standards. In fact, A&P's could be
specifically *required* to hold all homebuilts to some very
high standards. That would put a crimp in the urge for some
buyers to try to buy a ready-made-homebuilt....and instead
favor them buying a certified bird. But it helps us by keeping
that insurance from rising due to someone who doesn't know the
airframe doing improper maintenance.
It should also be noted that even if you have the repairman's cert.
you would be crazy to think that you are qualified to do every
bit of engine and avionics work automatically. The smart
homebuilder will know when he's getting in over his head and
ask for assistance early on. One of the problems though is that
the people who would want to buy a read-made-homebuilt are
doing it for a reason....either cost, or "free" annual maintenance.
People who are obsessed enough to do this for those reasons
*may* be the ones who would be dangerous to be in that situation,
as it's when you cut corners that things start to be problems.
A true and honest "builder assist" is really a good thing though,
in that it does help a builder to better learn good skills and
apply them to their project. I do have a very tough time
getting my own mind to accept a "2 weeks to taxi" program though,
for the reasons I state above....those people simply didn't
likely do enough of the work themselves to know their machine to
the level they should/could. It would be nice if they just
bought a pre-made certified plane because at least then they
know they have to get help in inspecting it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pilotdds(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to thank Wally at synergy for the 10 day course which my
wife and I enjoyed.I would also like to thank the paid workers in the
philipines who built the majority of my wings and fuse.Not to mention
lancair avionics for my panel.I for one do not want the feds looking
over my shoulder deciding if i meet the 51% rule on my 7 project.When we
sign our application for airwortiness we sign under penalty of perjury
that the aircraft was amateur built for our own purposes.If there are
those out there bending the rules and it doesnt effect safety so be
it.This may result in safer aircraft.Note the new light sport allows
owners to do there own maintanance after a weekend course.I will
continue to build my own aircraft because it is cheaper than psycotherapy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deej(at)deej.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: unbelievable |
|
|
Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | I do have a very tough time
getting my own mind to accept a "2 weeks to taxi" program though,
for the reasons I state above....those people simply didn't
likely do enough of the work themselves to know their machine to
the level they should/could.
|
I thought the same way until I looked into it a bit more. Will they
know the plane as intimately as someone doing a slow build? Probably
not. Will they know it enough to safely maintain it? I believe so,
after looking into the program myself.
You can apply a similar comparison to buying a quick build kit versus
building the slow build version.
As you say, most of us know when we are getting in over our heads, and
ask for help. Those that don't, well, Darwin generally pays a visit
unfortunately, regardless of what type of airplane or who built it.
-Dj
do not archive
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: unbelievable |
|
|
You do have a good point in that, and since you've invested the
time to check out the program at Glastar, I don't doubt you
on it. On the positive side of the QB -10 parts though, when
you receive them they are fully open enough that you can pretty
much view every rivet if you wish, and inspect the quality of
the work....and from workflow perspective, since all builders
should pretty much have built the tailcone and fins, the skills
should still be there. But I do agree you can make an argument
against it to some extent.
I'm sorry I got so long-winded the last post though. My main
intent was to just touch on the fact that avionics/paint/engine
work count nothing towards the 51% rule, so those items can be
fully farmed out and not affect your standing at all....and for
some people, that's probably a very good thing. One caution to
all panel-shop-buyers....your panel builder can build the panel
and do a great job, but you're still not excused from the post-flight
debugging. It would be very hard indeed for a panel builder to
have 100% of everything perfectly calibrated and set up from
their shop....the builder still has some responsibilities to
read and understand the install and operations manuals.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dj Merrill wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim Olson wrote:
> I do have a very tough time
> getting my own mind to accept a "2 weeks to taxi" program though,
> for the reasons I state above....those people simply didn't
> likely do enough of the work themselves to know their machine to
> the level they should/could.
I thought the same way until I looked into it a bit more. Will they
know the plane as intimately as someone doing a slow build? Probably
not. Will they know it enough to safely maintain it? I believe so,
after looking into the program myself.
You can apply a similar comparison to buying a quick build kit versus
building the slow build version.
As you say, most of us know when we are getting in over our heads, and
ask for help. Those that don't, well, Darwin generally pays a visit
unfortunately, regardless of what type of airplane or who built it.
-Dj
do not archive
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: unbelievable |
|
|
"The tree of life is self pruning", unfortunately the selection process
effects everyone with insurance with the same tree rate. Whether it be
Elm Disease or Pine Beetle, there are whole forests to attest that even
healthy one's can get in the way when it spreads.
Self policing, information sharing, meaningful discussion, peer
pressure, seminars, schooling and regular currency in piloting and
maintenance will all lead to a healthier forest.
I just don't want to see a segment of aviation go by the wayside as
profit and kit sales become the overriding issue of the moment. It was
kit operation that challenged Rick Schrameck and Dr. Caldwell that lead
to the 51% Committee.
February 13th, 2007 5,000 RV aircraft having been completed the old
fashioned way.
John Cox
Do not Archive
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
