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What is insane? Was: Backup Electric Vacuum Pump

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: What is insane? Was: Backup Electric Vacuum Pump

Good Afternoon Dave,   

 I don't think doing whatever anyone wants to do to their personal  experimental aircraft is ever insane.

  

 And, as a matter of fact, my 1978 Bonanza is now an all electric machine,  so I do agree that going all electric is a reasonable thing to do.

  

 If someone does wish to add another back up to whatever is being used,  adding a single T&B powered by a single Venturi is about as light and cheap  as any standby can be.

  

 There is absolutely no requirement in the FARs that any of our older  airplanes have any redundancy at all. My first Bonanza had one vacuum pump, one  vacuum T&B, and one vacuum directional gyro. No attitude gyro and no back up  for the Vacuum. Perfectly legal for IFR at the time. 

  

 I added an electric T&B because I wanted a little more redundancy than  was installed in the airplane when I bought it. When the Attitude Gyro was added  to the list of instruments required for IFR light, I added a vacuum driven  attitude gyro. Still -- No redundancy required.

  

 While some of the more recently approved airplanes do have redundancy built  into their certification limitations, we have no more requirement for redundancy  that do the homebuilders among us.

  

 To each his own and all that stuff!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 3/3/2007 2:05:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,  N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I don't    know about you guys, but if I were building an experimental 

and had no    Type Certificate I had to abide by, I would be spending my 

time figuring    out how to build a bullet proof electrical system and 

getting rid of    anything that had the word Vacuum in it.  It's an old, 

archaic    technology that, at the present date, serves ONLY to make 

gyros    cheaper.  The vacuum pumps are less reliable or long-lived than 

an    alternator, and you're basically building a parallel power system 

for    gyros that adds weight and complexity, hoses, filters, etc, and 

so    on.  If you've got redundant electrical, and you are now worrying    

about a backup vacuum system, you're basically building QUADRUPLE    

parallel systems to power gyros.  That's insane to  me.

	


 





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Jerry Grimmonpre'

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: What is insane? Was: Backup Electric Vacuum Pump

Old  Bob ...

Wouldn't you opt for a vacuum horizon, even  one that has the leans when the EFIS locks up on final to an  instrument runway?  This has happened while vectored to a  runway not selected in the EFIS.  It ended happily to another  pilot who resorted to backup instruments.  Any instrument or piece of  hardware that will get your wings near level, even a leaning vacuum driven  horizon, is better than none at all .  Bottom line is EFIS requires  back up stuff to level the wings and stay out of the weeds ...  autopilot, vac horizon, t&b, altimeter and airspeed.  Betting on EFIS  alone is something not even Boeing does. 

 Jerry ...

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: What is insane? Was: Backup Electric Vacuum Pump

Good Evening Jerry, 

  

 I like the T&B. 

  

 If I had to choose between having only an artificial horizon or only a  T&B , I would take the T&B every time.

  

 The company took away our T&Bs back when I was flying the 720. I  flew it between 1968 and 1972 so imagine the T&B was eliminated in  about 1970. I do recall that the first time I got in turbulence after that was  when I first missed the T&B. I had not realized I had been using it to kill  the Dutch roll, but as soon as it started, my eyes fell to where the T&B had  been located.

  

 I realize that I also suffer from the disease of primacy. When I was  getting my instrument training, we were not allowed to use an Artificial Horizon  or a Directional Gyro. All the training and all the check rides were done  strictly on partial panel. 

  

 I managed to learn how to use those fancy gyros later in life, but I  have always reverted to the T&B when things started to get confusing. Since  I tend to get confused easily, I looked at the T&B a lot!

  

 It is still the most reliable mechanical instrument available.

  

 And it is light, cheap, and simple.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 3/3/2007 4:25:28 P.M. Central Standard Time,  jerry(at)mc.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Old Bob ...

Wouldn't you opt for a vacuum    horizon, even one that has the leans when the EFIS locks up on final    to an instrument runway?  This has happened while vectored to a    runway not selected in the EFIS.  It ended happily to another    pilot who resorted to backup instruments.  Any instrument or piece of    hardware that will get your wings near level, even a leaning vacuum    driven horizon, is better than none at all .  Bottom line is EFIS    requires back up stuff to level the wings and stay out of the    weeds ... autopilot, vac horizon, t&b, altimeter and airspeed.     Betting on EFIS alone is something not even Boeing    does. 

   Jerry ...

	


 



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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: What is insane? Was: Backup Electric Vacuum Pump

In a message dated 3/3/2007 4:40:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, Bobs V35B  writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Betting on EFIS alone is something not even Boeing    does. 

   Jerry ...

	


 

Just a bit more Jerry,

  

 I am not ready to rely on having nothing but glass. In fact, I do not  believe I will buy a glass cockpit for several years, if ever.  I am happy  with the classic instruments and I will buy as cheap an MFD as I can get to play  with while I fly the airplane in reference to "traditional" information.

  

 I would imagine that I will buy glass when it becomes cheaper than  traditional instrumentation. I DO believe that will eventually happen.   Odds are that I will still have an Airspeed, T&B and Altimeter all in a row  very close to my primary scan area!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. 

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