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A Long Pin
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: A Long Pin

All



Do you have any idea where to get

a long pin to install to the root of the

flap? I mean about ½ inch longer than

the standard pin which is about 1" long.



Or is it any way to make the original one

longer by lenghtening it some how?



My purpose is to change it just to aid rigging.

I have some difficulties to rigg the port side wing.

The bearing in the flap cross tube turns away

when the pin try to go inside. Finally when rigged,

all is just perfect and the flaps moves 27 degrees.



I think when the pin is longer, it could go in more easily

(before those wing root fore and aft pins).



I found  some talkings about this topic.

It was on the forum 13/3/2002. Somebody had exactly

same problem. Andy D wrote the bearing should move 

only 5 degrees. Is that really so? My bearing is turning 

VERY easily 360. I tied to contact him (PFA) but did 

not get any comment (I am a PFA-member).



Any other ideas to solve my rigging problem?

My port side wing takes one hour to go in - stbd side one minute.



Regards, Raimo

===========

Raimo M W Toivio



OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, completed 

OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, under reinterioring

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded)



37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753 777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450



raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi

www.rwm.fi

hansjd(at)online.no
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Raimo,



I had the same problem. I made a "pig-dick" out of Redux/flox and put it on 

the tip of the flap-pin (thick mixture).I made it into a cone and after cure 

sanded it smooth. Bevare not to sand the pin itself, though. I roughened and 

degreased the very tip of the pin before applying the mixture. After 

lubrication the pin - with plenty of lubrication - hits the hole before the 

wing pins enters. The bearing orientates nicely on the pin and rigging goes 

effortless. The cone is ca. 2.5 cm long.



Hope this helps.



Hans



---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Hans,



I thought it is impossible to glue anything

to the top of the pin but if your cone is

still there, it must be a way to the happy

rigging.



Thank you for a nice advice, Raimo



do not archive



---

daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: A Long Pin

If you make the pin longer it may hit the side of the tube when it slide in

binding the flap movement, it goes in at an angle. The best way is the cone

extension like Hans said. I did mine like that too. The cone is angled and

does not interfere with the movement.



Dean Seitz



--

NevEyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Ramio,

 Ensure the spherical bearing is driven fully into the tube end fitting, if  it is not all the way in, it will rotate as you have described, when fully  inserted, the rotation should be limited so as not to '' go blind ''

 Cheers,

 Nev.

     [quote][b]

DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

You can find ball lock pins of just about any size or style at McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/). Do a search on "ball lock pin" to pull up the results. Make sure you measure carefully following their instructions.



Dan

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Nev

I have a vague memory that the bearing is not symetrical (back to front) 

If put in wrong the spere will rotate, the oter way it is restrained by 

the housing. Is this right, it's ten years since I last did this job??

Graham

NevEyre(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ramio,

 Ensure the spherical bearing is driven fully into the tube end fitting, 

 if it is not all the way in, it will rotate as you have described, when 

 fully inserted, the rotation should be limited so as not to '' go blind ''

 Cheers,

 Nev.

 

 *

 

 

 *


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Gidday G,



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a vague memory that the bearing is not symmetrical (back to

front) 
	


If put in wrong the spere will rotate, the other way it is restrained by



the housing.



Can't look right now but I'm sure my bearings have a flange on the outer

casing and can only go in one way.



Cheers

Kingsley



Do not archive

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Hey K!

the outer casing has a flange, that's a Europa part, the bearing 

assenmbly could go into it either way I think. The sphere protrudes more 

on one side than the other so if the protrusion is put in first it will 

be restrained from rotating too much by the hole in the outer casing.

Graham



Kingsley Hurst wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Gidday G,

 

 

>I have a vague memory that the bearing is not symmetrical (back to

 

 front) 

 If put in wrong the spere will rotate, the other way it is restrained by

 

 the housing.

 

 Can't look right now but I'm sure my bearings have a flange on the outer

 casing and can only go in one way.

 

 Cheers

 Kingsley

 

 Do not archive

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Nev, Graham, Kingsley and all the other Great Pin Men



I checked MY case and...



- bearings are fully inserted

- port side rotates 360 any direction very sensitively

- that is why it is difficult to rigg the port side wing

- stbd side rotates like port side but its quite tight

- that is why it is easy to rigg the stbd side wing

- MY bearings (sphere part of it) are symmetrical 

- bearing outer casing has a flange, so it cannot go any deeper

- like Kingsley wrote they can go in only one way



Is it possible there are two kind of the flap bearings???

Fully rotating models and restricted models???



If somebody will find a truth /solution of this case, 

please let me know. I will be this eve in the workshop

trying to find some comprehension and will check my mail 

regularly.



I am very tempted to make my pin longer by adding

a cone shape part to it (build by redux-flox). One

builder found a way to sky by building a nice little ½" cone.



Thanks, Raimo





---

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Raimo,

I rotate the bearing ball by the finger for about 20° and it never goes 

inside. So if you can push the ball outside the bearing than there is 

something wrong with the bearings.

Karel Vranken #447  F-PKRL

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Karel,



our common and prestigious friend - Dirk - 

checked my plane and also those bearings

couple of months ago as you know. He did

not noticed anything wrong with the bearings.

He said only "they are very /too sensitive 

- try to take all the grease away to aid rigging".



The ball is about 2 mm out of the bearing flange.

If I turn it 180 degrees, it is again 2 mm out of

the bearing = it is symmetrical.



So, my guess is: there are two kind of the flap

bearings in use on the Europa-market: 

w restricted and unrestricted movements.



Could you please send me a close-up photo of

your bearing?



Regards, Raimo

---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: A Long Pin

Raimo

it is not the ball that's assymetric, I think it's the journal it is 

mounted in. Then, when it is placed in the receptacle wrong way it 

doesn't protrude quite as far in the housing centre hole.

I habvn't looked in the Europa manual, mine is hidden in a box somewhere!

Graham



Raimo Toivio wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Karel,

 

 our common and prestigious friend - Dirk - 

 checked my plane and also those bearings

 couple of months ago as you know. He did

 not noticed anything wrong with the bearings.

 He said only "they are very /too sensitive 

 - try to take all the grease away to aid rigging".

 

 The ball is about 2 mm out of the bearing flange.

 If I turn it 180 degrees, it is again 2 mm out of

 the bearing = it is symmetrical.

 

 So, my guess is: there are two kind of the flap

 bearings in use on the Europa-market: 

 w restricted and unrestricted movements.

 

 Could you please send me a close-up photo of

 your bearing?

 

 Regards, Raimo

 ---

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

The ball assembly (i.e. ball and its non-detachable outer race) need to be 

placed right in to the bearing carrier (i.e. the part that fits in to the 

end of the flap operating tube). Otherwise the ball will turn 180+deg.

The bearing carrier has a lip protruding on the inner diameter that prevents 

the ball turning more than a few degrees, when properly registered.



Or, if the ball assembly if a loose fit in the carrier, then as the ball 

turns it will push itself  out against the inner lip to allow 180 deg ball 

rotation.



Duncan McF.

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Graham



yes - the ball is symmetric and the journal box is assymmetric,

because it has a flange. At least my  journal box has a flange.

That´s why it is impossible to intall the journal box wrong way

in the receptacle. Just like Kingley stated.



Europa manual does not give a light.



I got a message from one builder&operator from the States:

he has really got two kind of bearings; a fully rotating one and 

a restricted one. He has problems w restricted one (of course!).



**

"I have this problem.  Interestingly enough one ball rotates completely 

and the other doesn't and there is no obvious difference."

**



So, my guess was right. There are two kinds of the flap bearings.

Think it is basically the guestion of quality (or lack of it).



Have to live (and rigg) with it.



Cheers, Raimo

==========

Raimo M W Toivio



OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417, completed but not easy to rigg (port side wing so far)

OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk, under reinterioring, almost completed

OH-BLL Beechcraft C45, w radial engines (grounded), the firing day will come



37500  Lempaala

Finland

tel + 358 3 3753 777

fax + 358 3 3753 100

gsm + 358 40 590 1450



raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi

www.rwm.fi

---

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Raimo,

Meanwhile I saw your answer to Graham. Now you are to the point. Look at the 

pictures I made. Number one and two are with extreme left and extreme right 

position. You barely can see the difference. So this means that the movement 

is restricted. Number three shows the pin in the flap. You will notice that 

I made a cone to guide the rod with the bearing to the pin and no rigging 

problems.

Regards,

Karel Vranken, # 447  F-PKRL

---

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Raaimo

Duncan explained it better than I did but there are three parts to the 

assembly

1 sphere

2 bearing journal

3 bearing carrier/bearing box

It seems one of your bearings is not fully entered into the bearing 

carrier. That's why the spre can rotate 360

Graham



Raimo Toivio wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Graham

 

 yes - the ball is symmetric and the journal box is assymmetric,

 because it has a flange. At least my  journal box has a flange.

 That´s why it is impossible to intall the journal box wrong way

 in the receptacle. Just like Kingley stated.

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Raimo,



The bearing that is rotating, is not deep enough in the socket. Take a  

tube on the outer ring and hit it, while someone supports the other end of  

the flap tube. That should move it the millimeter that is missing.



-- 

workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

http://www.europaowners.org/kit600

mono xs, at  the painter, continuing on the panel.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

Jos

I think you hit the nail on the head!

G



Jos Okhuijsen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Raimo,

 

 The bearing that is rotating, is not deep enough in the socket. Take a  

 tube on the outer ring and hit it, while someone supports the other end 

 of  the flap tube. That should move it the millimeter that is missing.

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

NevEyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: A Long Pin

In a message dated 31/03/2007 01:23:43 GMT Standard Time,  grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Jos

I think you hit the nail on the head!

G



Jos    Okhuijsen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen"    <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>

 

 Raimo,

 

 The bearing    that is rotating, is not deep enough in the socket. Take a  

 tube    on the outer ring and hit it, while someone supports the other end 

    of  the flap tube. That should move it the millimeter that is    missing.

	

	


 

 Hey Guy's, that is what I said three days  ago............................................................

 Cheers, Nev.

     [quote][b]

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