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DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

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jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Dear Listers and Threadheads,



I was looking on YouTube.com the other day and just for the hell of it I put in Zenith Zodiac and low and behold, believe it or not, there are quite a few home videos of flying 601's and 701's in action.



All was good until, I watched one video that said Looping a 601 and low and behold, make my teeth grit, forehead furling, sick to my stomach is a video of a guy looping his 601.  Although its a pretty amazing video, as a builder and I have flown my aircraft CH601XL N196ZP a 130+ hours of enjoyable fun, can this be done?  Is this person nuts?  



I don't know about this guy, however, I don't really believe that the rear part of the Plane is really that robust in terms structure as compared to a Van's.  Nor was it meant to be as intentioned by the designer, I may be wrong, but I built one and compared to some other airframes I have looked at it's just an "apples and oranges" proposition. Moreover,  I'm sure you can loop anything, but will it stand the test of time?  It just made me cringe!



In my opinion, it just is irresponsible to go against what an aircraft is all about if you catch my drift.  Also, a video like this could give those less prudent and safety minded and daring individuals some bad ideas.



Has anybody else seen this video? Take a look if you can I really don't know how You Tube works in terms of archiving it's content, but HOLY SHIT!



Sincerely,



Jeff Paris

N196ZP CH601XL  Jabiru3300, Dynon EFIS, Xerion Avionix 130+ hours of memorable and safe fun!

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Jeff, you think the 601 looping makes you cringe, look further and watch

the 701 loop, that will really pucker the sphincter. Sorry guys, these

planes are strong for their intended purpose but when people do

extremely stupid things and crash who is the first one blamed ? The

company of course. In the last 6 months I have seen the 601 and 701

looped and hammer headed, heard of people going 220mph in dives in a

601, plus a lot more then I can share. It is nice to know that most

times people survive intentionally outrageous stupid acts, but my fear

is that they figure if the plane can do it once it can do it forever.

This in my opinion is just a large game of Russian Roulette. 



When I first decided on building the 601 it was with the intent that

this is the plane my children are going to learn on. I realize that I

may not always be with them and the vigor's of youth sometimes create

less then intelligent thought. I know that the 601 is capable of a great

many feats and stupid actions are survivable in the plane, but constant

bad judgment unchecked only ever has one outcome. Now as for looping a

701, I'm sorry but that scares the hell out of me just thinking about

it.



Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com

--

rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Jeff,

     I would like to see that video, although I have no intention of doing 

aerobatics in my ZodiacXL.  You are right about some pilots being the ones 

who will try it.  How about publishing the URL where you saw this.



Tracy Stone

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: Re: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Actually, there is a link to this clip on the Zenith website -



To see the 601 Looping go to http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/videos.html



If you want to see the 701 Loop and roll visit   http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=63333FD009D76FBB&page=2



What alarms me further is the fellow in the 701 says he is teaching himself aerobatics.



As to my opinion..... it is possible for a trained aerobatic pilot to loop and roll an aircraft without pulling excessive G's.  That said, I have no intention of doing so in my 601 because "such maneuvers are not recommended by the designer."  I'm still working on becoming an old(er) pilot.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Not to sound like an arm chair attorney, but wouldn't it be prudent to

determine who the owner/operators are (based on the registration of the

aircraft) and send them each (via certified mail) a letter of caution.

Restating the design limitations of the aircraft, and noting that they're

videos display operation of the aircraft outside of the design limitations,

that such operation is unsafe to the point of intentional disregard for the

safety of themselves and others on the ground, that such operation is

expressly unsanctioned by the designer and manufacturer of the kit, and that

publicizing such careless behavior may encourage others to attempt similar

acts of negligence, etc.

Just a thought, in this day and age of "I'm not responsible, go after the

deep pockets of big companies" litigation, I would be quick to distance

myself form people who would flagrantly abuse my products in such a fashion.

Lawyers could argue that the videos were public domain for XX amount of

time, and that the manufacturer/designer "should have seen/known of the

activity, and did nothing to inform the operators, and is therefore liable

for the accident". I've seen far more extreme arguments won in tort cases.

If you could simply produce the copies of the documents of warning, and

certified receipts of their mailing, it would be case closed. I would even

go so far as to send copies of that warning to the aviation administering

agencies of the registered countries of ownership, informing them of the

recorded acts of negligence.

Just my 2 cents. Cheaper to nip it in the bud now, than to pay for it when

the stupid people end up dead, with next of kin suing in court.



Craig Smith

--

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

C Smith, 

this is a joke right?  Dude, maybe when you see someone pass you faster than the speed limit, you should send them a note. your funny, your killin me, whuu!

For a second there, I thought you were erious.

Juan



--

graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

The design limitations are there for a reason I some idiot is prepared to 

break the rules we should not condone it.

If people die in an ultralight aircraft It reflects badly on all ultralight 

flyers especially If the rules are being broken.

There have already been deaths in CH601 with wing failures (for what reason 

I am unsure)

I hope all the people seeing this action in a CH601 would be happy to know 

it has been done.

No need to put any more lifes on the line.



Graeme  do not archive



---

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

I may be funny, but you are pitiful.

CS 



--

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

Uh-oh...Big Brother is watching...



Gary Boothe 

Cool, CA 

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, 

Tail done, wings done, working on c-section

--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: DID I SEE THIS ON YouTUBE! 601 Looping!!!!

It my pleasure, any time:)  I am glad you feel it is your responsability to inform a perfect strainger, that you think they are doing something, you deem inapropriate. 

Let me know how it goes.   By the way, where are those warnings by the designer about you are being a bad man for doing a loop?  I can't find them in my POH.



JUan    



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