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Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons
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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

It's like having your fly down in public. 



So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

ailerons were now in-line very nicely.



It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

are neutral.  Time to adjust.



When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.



So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

droopy tips like I did.



Tim



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I am sitting here wondering what could cause that.  It must be the change

in angle between the stick and the bellcrank in the wing root.  That

little change in angle must make enough difference that it changes the

height.  I have not noticed this, but it is a good observation.  Thanks

for pointing it out.  It probably will give you a little bit of speed, as

Randy's did.  You will be able to sleep better now knowing that, even

though you may not have measured it, you will be getting that extra knott.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

 to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

 Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

 problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

 in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

 rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

 ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

 the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

 in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

 a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

 and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

 maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

 didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

 great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

 I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

 It's like having your fly down in public. 



 So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

 hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

 1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

 around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

 ailerons were now in-line very nicely.



 It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

 in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

 So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

 centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

 The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

 so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

 are neutral.  Time to adjust.



 When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

 the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

 It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

 fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.



 So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

 perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

 droopy tips like I did.



 Tim



 --

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I pro'ly shoulda said "Wow, when I flew I noticed I had picked up an

extra 8 kts of speed!"  That could have been the start of a great

hanger-flying wive's tale type story.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am sitting here wondering what could cause that.  It must be the change

 in angle between the stick and the bellcrank in the wing root.  That

 little change in angle must make enough difference that it changes the

 height.  I have not noticed this, but it is a good observation.  Thanks

 for pointing it out.  It probably will give you a little bit of speed, as

 Randy's did.  You will be able to sleep better now knowing that, even

 though you may not have measured it, you will be getting that extra knott.

 

 do not archive

 

 Jesse Saint

 Saint Aviation, Inc.

 jesse(at)saintaviation.com

 www.saintaviation.com

 352-427-0285

 

 Tim Olson wrote:

> 

>

> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

> in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

> rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

> the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

> a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

> and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

> didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

> It's like having your fly down in public. 

>

> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

> 1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.

>

> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

> centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

> are neutral.  Time to adjust.

>

> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.

>

> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

> droopy tips like I did.

>

> Tim

>

> --

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

>

deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Tim did you do the adjustment in the bell crank to aileron rod?  How

many turns did it take?  One end or both equally?



Tom Deutsch #40545 FAA inspection Friday-hope to fly Saturday or Sunday.



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I can't say for sure how many turns.  I just did it one or two

turns at a time until it got close and then a half turn whichever

way I needed.  On one side I did the adjustment on both ends,

shortening the rods slightly. I found that it's nearly impossible

to remove the aft rod end to spin it, so on those I loosened the

locknut on the rod end with the inside on the belcrank disconnected

so I could move the aileron to provide access to the locknut (may

need to put the flaps down).  Then I could spin the rod while

the end stayed put on the aft ends.  On the forward ends, I could

just spin the rod end.  It was kind of a tight work area, but

I just took my time and got it right.



PS: Good luck on your first flight!!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Tom Deutsch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Tim did you do the adjustment in the bell crank to aileron rod?  How

 many turns did it take?  One end or both equally?

 

 Tom Deutsch #40545 FAA inspection Friday-hope to fly Saturday or Sunday.

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Tom, good luck!  Fly safe.  



John J



do not archive 



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:59 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Tim,



So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick 

nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the aileron 

alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not in the full 

back position, the ailerons droop.



The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column is 

not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod. Or, it 

could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which allows you 

to tie the right and left sticks together is not perpendicular to the long 

axis of the tube itself.



In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this 

translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side to 

side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different arc then 

your stick grip.



Am I understanding this correctly?



If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise position) 

and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.



So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in directly 

before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop would be 

okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not deployed, this 

would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing tip would 

stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.



I think reflex would be slightly safer.



JOhn G.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500






Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

It's like having your fly down in public. 



So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

ailerons were now in-line very nicely.



It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

are neutral.  Time to adjust.



When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.



So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

droopy tips like I did.



Tim



--

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too

much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they

deflect and affect eachother.  It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick

that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change

in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with

increasing up elevator.  I didn't check it with full-forward

stick to see if the alignment changes there too.



It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.

And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be

a big safety problem too.  It's just an effect of what

happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.



For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral

as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the

ailerons.  Then in cruise I looked out and they looked

basically the same.  So in cruise, my elevator was also

neutral.  I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch

sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough

elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to  cause you any

heartache with the mis-alignment.  It's simply an alignment

that you must do properly if you want them not to droop

in cruise.  Your actual stick movement at both high and low

airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10.  I have never had to

worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for

instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an

extremely twitchy turbulent approach.   And I can almost

guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available

up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.

You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the

plane.



No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do

something to take your mind off this. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Gonzalez wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Tim,

 

 So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick 

 nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the 

 aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not 

 in the full back position, the ailerons droop.

 

 The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column 

 is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod. 

 Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which 

 allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not 

 perpendicular to the long axis of the tube itself.

 

 In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this 

 translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side 

 to side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different 

 arc then your stick grip.

 

 Am I understanding this correctly?

 

 If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise 

 position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.

 

 So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in 

 directly before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight 

 droop would be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are 

 not deployed, this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because 

 the wing tip would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.

 

 I think reflex would be slightly safer.

 

 JOhn G.

 

 

 

> From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

> Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500

>

> 

>

> Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

> to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

> Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

> problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

> in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

> rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

> ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

> the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

> in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

> a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

> and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

> maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

> didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

> great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

> I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

> It's like having your fly down in public. 

>

> So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

> hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

> 1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

> around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

> ailerons were now in-line very nicely.

>

> It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

> in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

> So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

> centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

> The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

> so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

> are neutral.  Time to adjust.

>

> When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

> the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

> It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

> fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.

>

> So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

> perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

> droopy tips like I did.

>

> Tim

>

> -- 

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

>

>

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Thanks,



I had a 7 am patient and they cancelled over the weekend so I am in to the 

office early with nothing to do.



JOhn G.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:27:39 -0500






Don't make too big a deal of it John...it's not worth too

much investigation into the linkages and how exactly they

deflect and affect eachother.  It isn't ONLY in full-aft-stick

that this changes, it's just a very slight progressive change

in the aileron alignment that affects them both equally with

increasing up elevator.  I didn't check it with full-forward

stick to see if the alignment changes there too.



It's not a design defect, a big gotcha, or anything like that.

And I seriously doubt the deflection is big enough to be

a big safety problem too.  It's just an effect of what

happens with the elevator/stick/ailerons all connected together.



For this alignment, I kept the elevator perfectly neutral

as I mentioned in the previous email, and then I aligned the

ailerons.  Then in cruise I looked out and they looked

basically the same.  So in cruise, my elevator was also

neutral.  I assure you, in flight, the RV-10 is very pitch

sensitive and I seriously doubt you'll EVER put enough

elevator into ANY maneuver with the RV-10 to  cause you any

heartache with the mis-alignment.  It's simply an alignment

that you must do properly if you want them not to droop

in cruise.  Your actual stick movement at both high and low

airspeeds is very tiny in the RV-10.  I have never had to

worry about fat people's legs getting in the way, for

instance...you don't need that much elevator even on an

extremely twitchy turbulent approach.   And I can almost

guarantee that you'll never use a HUGE portion of the available

up-elevator travel that you have...you'd rip the wings off.

You only use that much travel on landing rollout to slow the

plane.



No, go grab your rivet gun (or dental drill) and do

something to take your mind off this. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Gonzalez wrote:

>

>

>Tim,

>

>So what you are telling us is that when you strapped the control stick 

>nuetral side to side but full back elevator with the seat belt, the 

>aileron alignment problem was gone. But any other time with the sick not 

>in the full back position, the ailerons droop.

>

>The best that I can figure it is that the bushing reciever in the column 

>is not parallel to the holes in the fork which hold the aileron pushrod. 

>Or, it could be that the holes in the fork at the end of the tube which 

>allows you to tie the right and left sticks together is not perpendicular 

>to the long axis of the tube itself.

>

>In other words, then the stick goes full forward to full back, this 

>translates into aileron movement even when the stick stays nuetral side to 

>side. The bottom of WD 1011 (R) (L) column travel is on a different arc 

>then your stick grip.

>

>Am I understanding this correctly?

>

>If so, did you just put the stick in slightly down elevator(Cruise 

>position) and then adjust the ailerons to their nuetral position.

>

>So now with this adjustment, when the stick goes full back as in directly 

>before a slow speed stall, what do the ailerons do? A slight droop would 

>be okay only as long as flaps are down, but if no flaps are not deployed, 

>this would be a bad position to enter into a stall because the wing tip 

>would stall first before the in board portion of the wing did.

>

>I think reflex would be slightly safer.

>

>JOhn G.

>

>>From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

>>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>>Subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:27:40 -0500

>>

>>

>>

>>Yesterday I was looking for something to do for an hour

>>to waste some time, and I decided to look at my ailerons.

>>Some old-timers in the RV-10 lifetime may remember Randy had

>>problems with his ailerons being rigged low, causing a reduction

>>in stop speed.   Well, I didn't think mine were originally

>>rigged bad.  It was strange, as sometimes I would look at the

>>ailerons in the hanger and the would be perfectly in-line with

>>the wingtips and flaps.  Then other times I'd look at them

>>in flight and the ailerons would be low on both sides just

>>a small amount.   I would get done flying and look at them

>>and they'd be fine.  I didn't know what to make of it.  I thought

>>maybe it was a lift or loading issue in-flight, but I just

>>didn't know for sure.  Didn't concern me much because it flew

>>great for over 200 hours that way, but it did bug me that when

>>I flew with people like Vic, he could notice that kind of thing.

>>It's like having your fly down in public. 

>>

>>So anyway, I centered the sticks yesterday and they were OK in the

>>hanger with the sticks neutral, but maybe off by a little more than

>>1/8" per side.  So I thought I'd adjust them.  I strapped the seatbelt

>>around the stick to keep them centered tight, and lo and behold the

>>ailerons were now in-line very nicely.

>>

>>It was then that I realized that the small amount of travel induced

>>in the ailerons with the elevator movement was the entire issue.

>>So I used my aileron/rudder gust lock which centers the elevator and

>>centered the sticks.  Yeehaw, there was what I was looking for!

>>The ailerons were now drooped about maybe 1/4" per side or

>>so. So it WAS the elevator control, and in-flight the elevators

>>are neutral.  Time to adjust.

>>

>>When all was said and done, I had them adjusted to be matched with

>>the wingtips and flaps in-flight, and I put about 2.5 hours on.

>>It flies the same...not sure about speed as I never really try to

>>fly top speed, but it looks nicer in cruise and can't hurt.

>>

>>So use that tip when you're rigging your ailerons for flight, and

>>perhaps you'll not have to go over a year and 200 hours with

>>droopy tips like I did.

>>

>>Tim

>>

>>--

>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

>>

>>

>>

>>

Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I have been watching this post with interest.  I just wanted to chime in

on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and

auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side.  I

made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few

several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in

flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the

flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If

you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard

trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the

flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop

except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it

has been set for the last 80 hours or so.  



I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the

ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this

because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you

raise the trailing edge.  Randy 40006

--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

You should be priming your battery tray and figuring out the Andair

fittings then...

Dan

N289DT 



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler

that you're talking about I'm sure.



So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when

you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure

that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of

the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right?  And,

if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have

that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce

drag, you may have that issue.



Did I get it right?



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Randy DeBauw wrote:

[quote] 

 

 I have been watching this post with interest.  I just wanted to chime in

 on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and

 auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side.  I

 made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few

 several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in

 flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the

 flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If

 you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard

 trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the

 flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop

 except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it

 has been set for the last 80 hours or so.  

 

 I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the

 ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this

 because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you

 raise the trailing edge.  Randy 40006

 

 

 --

Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

PERFECT TIM. That is why you are the GRAND MASTER.  Later, Randy



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Already done my friend.



Going to fed ex, break between patients, to send back my control stick and 

base.



john

[quote]From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:25:38 -0400






You should be priming your battery tray and figuring out the Andair

fittings then...

Dan

N289DT



--

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set perfectly even with my flaps.  But in-flight I have noticed that my ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising them but sounds like that is what I should do.  If I do this though they will be a little higher than the flaps on the ground.  

   

  Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up the flaps that much. 



Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson 



That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler

that you're talking about I'm sure.



So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when

you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure

that even when you  apply some up pressure on them, the nose of

the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,

if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have

that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce

drag, you may have that issue.



Did I get it right?



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Randy DeBauw wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" 

 

 I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to chime in

 on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm air and

 auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I

 made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then I few

 several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in

 flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look at the

 flaps and how full up is  determined it is by the rear spar doubler. If

 you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard

 trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is because the

 flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop

 except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is how it

 has been set for the last 80 hours or so. 

 

 I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that raising the

 ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit to this

 because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the more you

 raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006

 

 

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

No, it's not low pressure from what I can tell.  It's just that the

jig, or whatever was used during the initial setup sets them to

even but at a setting where you've got aft stick (up elevator) put in.

I think probably many people (including myself) probably didn't pay

attention to the elevator position during the rigging...that's all.

And we're all ending up 1/4" low.  It could just be the jig sets

them that way by accident.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Scott Schmidt wrote:

[quote] This is pretty interesting. When I set up my ailerons they were set 

 perfectly even with my flaps.  But in-flight I have noticed that my 

 ailerons are down 1/4" from my flaps. I have been leary of raising them 

 but sounds like that is what I should do.  If I do this though they will 

 be a little higher than the flaps on the ground. 

  

 Pretty amazing threre is that much of low pressure that is pulling up 

 the flaps that much.

 

 */Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>/* wrote:

 

     

 

     That's a good observation on the flap stop...it's that huge doubler

     that you're talking about I'm sure.

 

     So the biggest point you're making, if I'm not mistaken is, when

     you adjust the ailerons up, do a quick doublecheck to make sure

     that even when you apply some up pressure on them, the nose of

     the aileron doesn't dip down into the slipstream, right? And,

     if you adjust them to be perfectly inline, you probably won't have

     that problem, but if you try to give them some "reflex" to reduce

     drag, you may have that issue.

 

     Did I get it right?

 

     Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

     do not archive

 

 

     Randy DeBauw wrote:

      > 

      >

      > I have been watching this post with interest. I just wanted to

     chime in

      > on how I made my adj. It was obvious that in level flight, calm

     air and

      > auto pilot on that my ailerons were down about 1/4" on each side. I

      > made the adjustment to them and lined them up per the book. Then

     I few

      > several hours looking at the alignment. I noticed that ailerons in

      > flight were down again about 1/16 to and 1/8". Well if you look

     at the

      > flaps and how full up is determined it is by the rear spar

     doubler. If

      > you have the flaps full up and then lift slightly on the outboard

      > trailing edge you will get a slight deflection up. This is

     because the

      > flaps on the outboard end (next to the aileron) does not have a stop

      > except the rear spar. I lifted the ailerons some more and that is

     how it

      > has been set for the last 80 hours or so.

      >

      > I had a talk with a Bonanza driver one day and he said that

     raising the

      > ailerons on a Bonanza was an old speed trick. The 10 has a limit

     to this

      > because the forward edge will be deeper in the slip stream the

     more you

      > raise the trailing edge. Randy 40006

      >

      >

      > --

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Anyone talk to Van's about this yet?  May be a good topic for a bulletin

from them to the -10 builders.  



do not archive 



--

Randy(at)abros.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I talked with Ken Kruger before my adjustments. He pointed out that the

leading edge will be dropping as the trialing edge is lifted.  Randy



--

GRANSCOTT(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

Has anyone tried the 3M tape that Art Matheson sells to cover the  lower/upper gaps?  I can't remember the tape number but a company in  Chicago sell it by the roll, and as experimentals one can try it?

  

 do not archive



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Aileron Rigging Tip - Prevent Droopy Ailerons

I think it's way too minor for a service bulletin.

I went 200+ hours before I fixed it.  It would be

nice to have perhaps better notes in the plans about

aligning it, but we all know how well those ideas

are received.  It's not really a safety issue either.

I think the best we can hope for is that eventually we

can educate people by these types of forums.  For the

people who don't participate online....well....maybe

we'll recognize their planes by their ailerons.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Jessen wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Anyone talk to Van's about this yet?  May be a good topic for a bulletin

 from them to the -10 builders.  

 

 do not archive 

 

 --

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